Open Forum – Tuesday, December 21, 2010

Good Morning, Hikers!

Sorry for the late start this morning. Here are a few bits from the WSJ editorial page to get us started:

First, a concrete example to disprove the notion that raising taxes results in increased revenue and cutting taxes decreases revenue.

Next, a nice response to those who would say that China’s rise and America’s decline is inevitable.

What else is going on in the world today?

71 Responses to Open Forum–Tuesday, December 21, 2010

  1. AFinch says:

    For all you Hayek fans, a little youtube fun: “I’m in love with Friedrich Hayek” (h/t LegalInsurrection)

  2. PhillyCon says:

    Double Trouble for Obamacare

    “While we don’t know where this will all end up, here’s a pretty good bet: Most or all of ObamaCare will be neutered, (1) by judges or the Supreme Court, or (2) by states that refuse to accept the law or try to bypass it, or (3) by members of Congress who are listening to the public.”

  3. GracieD says:

    I posted this on Monday’s Open Forum. This is important, so I copy/pasted it here.

    Good Morning Honeys, I have gone to the FCC website and gotten the emails for the commissioners. I am thinking that we could write them and tell them HANDS OFF THE INTERNET! I have already emailed them. I further told them that I had already begun contactine Congresspeople requesting that they pull funding for the ENTIRE FCC if they dare to enact net neutrality. They do not need to know that I have only emailed Dr. Cassidy so far about this, I have asked him for a list of Congresscritters who may have some influence with the FCC.

    Here are the emails for the cretins at the FCC:

    How to Contact the FCC

    To Contact the Commissioners via E-mail

    Chairman Julius Genachowski:
    Commissioner Michael J. Copps:
    Commissioner Robert McDowell:
    Commissioner Mignon Clyburn:
    Commissioner Meredith Attwell Baker:

  4. AFinch says:

    For Christmas joy expressed through music, nothing compares, in my opinion, to the Mormon Tabernacle Choir. Did you know that all 360 members of the Mormon Tabernacle Choir and all 110 members of the Orchestra at Temple Square are unpaid volunteers, who travel to performances at their own expense? Here is their Christmas 2010 video.

  5. ZMalfoy says:

    I just moved, and am mooching government internet to post this comment, as the Verizon guy doesn’t come until this afternoon.

    If you could all pray for my dear friend E. She recently miscarried, and I only found out yesterday. Thing was, she wasn’t supposed to be able to get pregnant in the first place, so you can imagine how rough this must be for her and her husband.

    Okay, I gotta get back to work, now. Happy Solstice to All!

    • yomotley says:

      Z — I am going to move this over to the “Prayer Room” . I hope you don’t mind me taking liberties.

      Is that my tax dollars paying for your honeytrail fix?

      • ZMalfoy says:

        Not at all.

        And. . . maybe. yes. Well, actually, just like one or two of your taxpayer pennies which, since they’re no longer made of copper, are pretty worthless anyway.

        . . . right?


        actually, I’m very strict with myself on only doing blog stuff while 1) on a short 5 minute break, of which I only take two a day, 2) on my lunch break (like, now) or 3) When the rest of my computer is tied of processing something and I can’t do anything else anyway (most of the rest of the time you see me. It’s literally either this or stare at the ceiling tiles and count the little holes).

        • yomotley says:

          You know I funning, right? I am all for doing whatever one has to do to be here…….I personally had to slay three dragons, drive through a tornado, be chased by gang members, and make the coffee myself!

          • ZMalfoy says:

            Oh I know!

            It’s just that I’m very conscious of the fact that I’m a small-gov’t Tea Partier that works for the Gummint. DoD, natch, so I can sleep at night, but my actual job is the person who writes up the purchase orders and contracts for buying things, and who does the competition of quotes and proposals. So, as a result, I’m a bit. . . hmm. . . obsessive? about “unnecessary waste of money that isn’t even ours, but the hard-working taxpayers’!”

            It’s my thing, you see. So I start to feel really guilty if I spent too much time “geeking” around the “internets” while on gubmint time. Thus my need to justify time spent and (mostly zinc) pennies frittered away . . . :P

  6. yomotley says:

    It is bothersome that the DOJ Eric Holder only recently realized we have a growing home-grown terrorist movement here in the USA. Duh, this is something most of us have known for YEARS and, in fact, could give Holder detailed lists of incidents starting ten years ago.

    “Holder says many of these converts to al Qaeda have something in common: a link to radical cleric Anwar Al Awlaki, an American citizen himself. ”

    OK. SO WHY NOT TRY THE GUY FOR TREASON????? (with death by firing squad)

  7. NeeNee says:


    NPR trots out this 2009 remake of the sacred Christmas story.
    Interesting that Christianity only exists to be lampooned
    or certain Biblical concepts cherry-picked to suit their twisted
    interpretation. . . .

    Joseph and Mary hitchhiked to an abandoned factory near Cleveland. Their unemployment compensation had run out. Joseph was a carpenter, but the only work going on in his neighborhood was boarding up storefronts. He and Mary had no place to live; and Mary was pregnant.

    She told Joseph that he would be the child’s father, but he wasn’t the child’s father. The spark that began the life of their child, she said, came from—well, it was too embarrassing and ridiculous for Joseph to repeat.

    Friends told him he was being taken for a fool. But Joseph loved Mary; he knew that the last few months had been hard. He decided that whatever fantastic stories Mary told him, he would love the child as his own.

    That night, Mary had a baby boy. He seemed healthy, wrinkly, and had a nice, loud cry. Mary swaddled their baby in old copies of bankrupt newspapers and laid him down in the back of an abandoned car.

    A stray gray dog, grimy from the road and whimpering with loneliness, kept watch over the baby and warmed him with her panting. Joseph also put his iPhone close, so their baby could be lulled to sleep with a lullaby app.

    That night, a star appeared in the east. Three Wise Persons—Warren Buffett, Alexander McCall Smith, and Monica Ali—came to behold Joseph and Mary’s child.

    They wanted to bring the child gold, frankincense, and myrrh. But they hadn’t been available since Lehman Brothers collapsed. So the Wise People brought gift cards to Chipotle. The infant saw them and smiled.

    Mary saw the look of delight in her child’s face and said to herself, “He’s happy with us.” But she saw Joseph sitting by himself at the far end of the garage. She knew he was worried about how he was going to make a life for their child. When Joseph came back to the car, his eyes glimmered.

    “I think I finally understand,” he said. “Why we’ve been given the gift of this child. It doesn’t matter who the father is, does it? Every child cries for our love and deserves our care. Every child who is hungry in Sudan, or cold in Cleveland. Every little girl who is abandoned by a roadside in China. Every little boy in Congo who‘s dragged into someone’s army. Every little boy and girl anywhere who is threatened by an epidemic, an explosion, or indifference—I must love them as a father loves his child.”

    Mary and Joseph sat with their arms around each other, and their baby boy. The dog—whom they decided to adopt on the spot—hopped up on the seat beside them and put her head gently onto Joseph’s lap. The star that had found them seemed to stay above them for a moment while their child breathed softly, safely, peacefully in their arms, looking out at a world that seemed suddenly new.

    • AFinch says:

      This, from the institution that employs Nina “excuse the expression” Totenberg. As long as we’re being cynical:

      How did Joseph afford an iPhone or an app and where did they charge it?

      How do they expect to feed and care for a dog when they can’t even find housing for their child?

  8. NeeNee says:

    Yesterday I had to see my doctor for a blood draw (thyroid check).
    He is 64 and told me last spring that if Obama truly does “kick in”,
    he will be retiring. “It would cost me $27,000 in labor costs to become
    compliant with putting all my records on-line,” he said.

    His wife, who helps out in the records department, told me then that

    this 2011 Medicare cut of 23% will just wreck his practice. “Already,
    we only get say, $275 on a $700 procedure. And we’re supposed to
    accept even LESS???”

    Yesterday as I waited, I saw a sign on the counter reading “Medicaid
    patients need to present a THREE.DOLLAR.CO-PAY before being
    seen.” I suppose every $3 collected helps pay a medical clerk salary
    for the day. Also, a young Hispanic woman was filling out a new
    patient form. Doc’s wife took it and then said, “Since you want to see
    doctor today, we need a $25 co-pay right now. If you don’t have it,

    you will need to leave and come back with it.” Young gal peeled it off
    a HUGE wad of cash. Interestingly, I never am required to give them
    any kind of co-pay. Long-term patients who pay their bills do have
    certain perks!

    • NeeNee says:

      Sorry, should be “Obamacare” in the first sentence.

      BTW, maybe a quick survey is in order here.
      How much have y’all’s medical insurance premiums
      gone up?

      Ours (through hubby’s Postal pension) is going up
      $40 a month—even though Benito supposedly exempted

      the loyal postal unions until 2018.
      A cousin who stopped by the house
      last night has worked at our local hospital since 1972.
      Her plan is seeing a $100 per month increase, which
      they can ill afford.

      • Menagerie says:

        In order to try to keep coverage affordable, the company my husband works for chose a plan that only covers hospitalizations at 50%. I need a surgery that will not happen now – I cannot afford a $5,000 family deductible and 50%. So basically, we are keeping insurance because we are afraid of a major illness. Oh, and it’s still going up 20.00 a week.

    • frankie says:

      DH wrote letter to his state Hospital Assoc., which used dues to take out ads praising all the Dems who supported Obamacare, to inform them that his hospitals 25 yr assoc. with the group was being dropped and the $ previously spent to pay the yearly dues would be applied to the increased healthcare premiums of his hospital’s employees.

    • yomotley says:

      I am still trying to figure out what having guns in my home and how many (asked in gyn visit) has to do with the uterus, particularly since I am past the age of “harboring a potential conservative”!

      • Menagerie says:

        Motley, are you serious? Why would they ask this?

        • WeeWeed says:

          Future reference. Remember to pay attention as to HOW they ask it; “Do you own a gun?” One could truthfully answer “No” – if one owned several. Or if they ask in the plural, “No” – if you only have one. Lie to the bastiges. They’re thinking of every way they can to keep track.

          • yomotley says:

            If I had to do it again, I would have not lied. I would have said, “I do not choose to participate in this non-applicable, albeit required, survey.”

            Someone, think might have been Finch, suggested I request the questions and also demand all answers be removed from my files. The problem with this is the answers will be removed from “my” files. But not from “theirs”, meaning the governments. A%&holes.

        • yomotley says:

          Yes, I am serious. The local hospital and physicians network is one of the first to be “compliant”, as a nurse jokingly told me. Anyways, the doctor spent about 45 minutes asking me a whole bunch of questions that were very invasive.

          The questions were, indeed, worded carefully, I now realize and know so that the answers would be “voluntary” since the questioned, indeed, do not have anything to do with going into hospital for outpatient surgery. I mean, what are they going to do? Not give the care if I answer “wrong”? Tricky wording would be, “How many years did you say you were in prison?” (Can not ask, “Were you ever a felon?”) For guns I forget how it was worded exactly now but was something like, “How many guns in the home are locked?” After this question the doc said it was a trick question.

          Other questions were was anyone in the home involved with abuse? Anyone in the home or family a history of anxiety and/or depression? Anyone in family struggling with substance abuse? (or something like that) The question can not be a direct one about alcoholism or drug abuse because that would be asking someone to break patient confidentiality as those are classified as medical conditions.

          It was the most bizarre, surreal doctor visit I have ever had.

          I mentioned this on HB and someone from Kentucky had mentioned they had had the gun question also so it is not a local thing only.

          I should hunt down the questions and do a video with a “doctor” and patient on the correct way to answer and the wrong way to answer. Unfortunately, at the time my blood pressure was up and was preoccupied with the idea I could have something serious going on, that I was not on my game. Only when the guns question came did I sit up and take notice. Before that I was the perfect little drone!

          Why ask it? I don’t know. Personally I think it is to have a database of all firearms. Many guns are legally not registered and were purchased long before you had to sign your inheritance away to buy one. My liberal relatives and associates standard response is, “Well, it is to educate on the dangers of guns and can reduce gun injuries they see all the time.” And they say this like it is a good thing and not a waste of money — all the waste is due to the insurance companies only. Bizarre.

        • yomotley says:

          This, like everything else the infiltrators do, has been in the making a long time. This article is from 2001

        • yomotley says:

          Here is an article I just found and the first paragraph describes how I felt and feel. I am still sick with the thought that I answered any of the questions.

          (The article was written in 1999. Where the ^%$& have I been? Oh, did not even have the net until late 2005)

          • yomotley says:

            OK. Who is gonna help me write a letter requesting a print out of the questions and answers I gave?

            The strange thing about this questioning was the doctor was the one who asked everything. I almost wonder if he did what he had to do, which was “ask” but then did not enter all the answers. You know, sort of a patriot’s own little bit of rebellion? Why did the nurse not do the questioning?

    • SleeplessinCA says:

      YEP! Quite a night, not exactly as planned but exciting none the less. Pretty great for a crowd that size, (5000 some estimate) to show up to praise the Lord!

      • Kristi says:

        Did you ever get to sing.. or was the whole thing called off?

        I use to live in Folsom! I love that mall.

        • SleeplessinCA says:

          NO! We were told by the fire dept. over the load speaker: “the mall was closed and move to the nearest exit”. After hearing and feeling a big “CRACK” on the second level, we were a little nervous about hangin’ around.

  9. yomotley says:

    Heads up: There have been some new requests in the prayer room (click on candle).

    Reminder: Would appreciate any Christmas stories shared on Mail Boxes and Old Barns be copied and pasted onto Christmas Anthology thread (click on Christmas Scene on side bar) Thank you. (Smile)

  10. frankie says:

    According to our idiot Sec. of Homeland Security, we are protected tirelessly from terrorists…….”.24/7, *364* days of the year”. REALLY!!! So which day AREN’T we protected, Janet????? This woman was an embarrassment as our AZ Gov., but her stupidity on full display for the entire country, entire world, is beyond words.

    • NeeNee says:

      I’m assuming this is mis-speak.
      But remember how they pounced all over Sarah Palin
      for her “North Korea” slip?

      Then, again . . . maybe not.
      Last year’s Detroit “Underwear Bomber”

      probably figured out Christmas Day was
      Nasty Napolitano’s terrorist skate day!

      Guess we’re supposed to file Janet’s
      364 days of Homeland Security protection
      with Obama’s reference to “57 states” in
      the Union during his campaign!

      • frankie says:

        How many people are aware that 2 wks ago Napalitano rolled out a new program called the “Trusted Travelers” which will allow Mexican’s who achieve this status by means of a background check & clean record, to breeze thru Customs & Secutity w/ “pre-approval”. This while American Citizens are up in arms about little old ladies and little kids are either viewed naked or felt up & strip searched. This while an American man is humiliated when TSA demands that he unstrap his colostomy bag and the urine spews all over his clothes. While this is going on and Sec. Napalitano says there are no exceptions and there will be NO profiling……..obviously there is profiling that allows Mexicans to bypass basic Security measures.

        Cochise Co. Sheriff Dever said in response to this that drug cartels are already recruiting Mexican’s to take Security & Customs jobs so what prevents them from recruiting people with “clean” backgrounds to obtain this Trusted Traveler status and use them to smuggle arms and drugs.

        But……our Borders have never been more secure so really – Americans are the problems who need to treated like terrorists whenever we want to board a plane to fly to grandma’s house or attend a business meeting somewhere in the country, and Mexican’s should be granted “Trusted Traveler’s” status.

        Can anyone say BASSAKWARDS?????

  11. Amsterdam Expat says:

    Doing my bit here to melt the Senate switchboard in opposition to any ratification of the Start Treaty. I’ve reached a number of the ‘Pubs offices in Washington (or in Senator DeMint’s case, one of his local offices), but several of their phone lines are closed or busy — e.g. Corker’s, Kirk’s, McCain’s, McConnell’s.

    I’ll keept trying (even as I feel the gorge rising) …

    • sundancecracker says:

      It seems like every damn day I am barely able to muster an appropriate amount of outrage for what these A**holes are doing to our nation. They are relentless with their totalitarian machinations? I hate this liberal/progressive statism with every fiber of my being! Where is the counter-balance for this daily barrage of nanny-state crap they insist on imposing against our will? I become increasingly convinced that if a true conservative backlash occurs it will be unprecedented and literally revolutionary. Where is the tipping point?

      • Jennifer H says:

        We have family in town for Christmas so I am pretty much on drive by status, when I even get a chance to check in at all that is- but Sundance I am with you 100% – I feel like I have been kicked in the gut over and over again- every day a new outrage!
        It’s truly stupefying what this lame duck is giving to these communists. We Have to Get the White House BACK and unravel all of this BS. Bah x10

      • frankie says:

        Couldn’t express my feelings any better than this. Each day, dozens of new crises that are designed to destroy our country as it was founded and collapse the system that has made it great. Virtually nothing we can do about any of it but try in vain to make phone calls only to be met with busy signals, full mailboxes and “you’re not from this State so your opinion will not be recorded”. Every Senator/Representative is making decisions that affect *every* citizen in this country, regardless of the state they are from . This BS about not being from a particular Congressman’s State is really graveling my A$$! So we sit here and watch the destruction of all we hold dear and all sit by and watch it happen while Rhino’s continue to do what they’ve always done – cave in to pressures or bribes or whatever they’re being cajoled with. Where is the tipping point, indeed! My outrage at all of this runneth over!

        My outrage at Scott Brown knows no bounds at this point. I was “this close” to contributing to his campaign and can’t imagine how I’d be feeling right now if I’d actually done what so many all over the country did to get him elected…..only to have him voting time and time again with the Democrats. What a DemoRAT!!!!

      • GracieD says:

        Sundance, I think we have reached the tipping point, but rather than being physically violent, we have become verbally and emotionally violent. We have engaged our hearts and minds, and we are literally flummoxing the Leftists/Statist/Progs because we have NOT done what THEY would do in our position. As much as I would love to punch some of them in the mouth, that would make me a loser for sinking to their level. I have to pray a whole lot more these days to keep from losing my temper with these idjits. Thank God for the Founding Fathers who wrote protections into our Constitution. We simply have to find the right person to take the fight to them in a political way. In the absence of finding that someone, we must BE that someone! Fix Bayonets!

      • I hear ya, brother. This is exactly how I’ve been feeling.

        So overwhelmed I’m practically stunned into inaction. Like I don’t even know where to start or who to yell at first.

  12. Bijou says:

    Here’s a great column from Sarah in USA Today.
    As you would expect, it’s brilliant and she has some terrific ideas for REAL, meaningful sanctions on Iran.
    Funny that we’ve never heard anything remotely like this from pants-wetting BO or SOS Clinton.
    And yet, people like Krauthammer and Rove continue to repeat the Left lie that she is not ready for prime time. As far as I’m concerned, they can all go to hell.

  13. PhillyCon says:

    Hey guys:

    I have family visiting today. I’ll try to check in sometime tomorrow. Sorry, I can’t participate in that other fun thread. Cheers to all! :)

  14. yomotley says:

    For history buffs here and for those just starting to understand USA’s distant and not-so-distant past, this is a fascinating written documentary of General Patton and the State of the Union before his untimely death. I hope to find more of what this guy has written

    • yomotley says:

      Duh. I only I would not have known Mr. Wilcox is a well known author and screenwriter! Anyways, what do you think of the bits of history thrown in this article? Some sound eerily like today. It is like we have come full circle — on steriods.

      • yomotley says:

        These message were left over on FTN thread. “Bob” is answering my question as to what movie he was referring to where putting a special bullet in neck would look like broken neck from an accident.

        Bob Smith says:
        December 21, 2010 at 4:22 pm (Edit)

        I believe it was the movie Patton (1970). (someone on this site will know why I am writing this here)

        Bob Smith says:
        December 21, 2010 at 4:28 pm (Edit)

        Sorry, it was a TV movie (1978?) called “Brass Target”

    • sundancecracker says:

      65 years ago, America’s Greatest WWII General died. George S. Patton, Jr didn’t die on the field of battle, but instead as the result of injuries sustained in a freak automobile accident near Mannheim, Germany, on December 9, 1945. Patton survived two world wars.

      General Patton was being treated for a severe neck injury at the 130th Station Hospital in Heidelberg, Germany, when he died on December 21, 1945. He was buried three days later, December 24, 1945, in the American Cemetery at Hamm, Luxembourg.

  15. Amsterdam Expat says:

    I finally managed to reach McConnell’s office to let him know to refuse to ratify the Start treaty.

    Folks, I have the sinking feeling that this &*$#*! Congress is really going to do it.

  16. yomotley says:

    We are not going to let this guy wanting to be chairman of RNC be taken seriously, are we?

    • sundancecracker says:

      Regarding the RNC chair. Personally, given all of Michael Steeles flaws, faults, and missgivings I still see him as the “best possible candidate” given the circumstances and other candidates. At least with Steele we know what to expect, we know he has respect for Sarah Palin, and we know he understands the power of the Tea Party.

      Any other name or candidate I have reviewed is far more embedded with the ‘establishment class”. Steele is rough around the edges, and perhaps doesn’t balance the needs of the ‘elites’ good enough for them, but he does understand the strength of We the People. Just my 2 cents…

  17. chrissythehyphenated says:

    Got a gajillion things to do that aren’t nearly as fun as hanging with you guys, but I am granting myself a little visit because Motley asked me to tweak my WordPress identity to get my linkies embedded in my name … since it seems when I put them into the comment, the Spam Gremlin eats me up and makes stupid busy work for our Trail Guides.

    I think I did it right, but clicking Post Comment will prove the pudding right? And while I’m here, let me just say I am UBER ANNOYED with Democrats! I got my Social Security “what you’re getting next year” letter and ahem ahem ahem … it’s the same amount as this year AND the year before. IOW, since Obummer has been in office, I haven’t gotten a COLA raise. (Methinks this is true for all y’all Social Security types?)

    Every year Bush was in office, I got a little raise. And it is very clear to me that practically every dang thing I want or need has gotten a lot more “more expensive” since Obama took over than it was doing when Bush was in office. It beats me why the Dumbocrat Powers That Be have decided that “what stuff costs” is different from the “Cost of Living.”

    I guess it’s kinda like how whenever the weather is hot, they point and jump up and down and say, “See? See? Global Warming!” But when we have year after year of record-breaking cold winters … well, we’re all too dumb to live if we think that “climate” and “weather” have anything to do with each other. (I actually saw comments to this effect at a libbie blog.)

    So anyway … color me way pissed about my fixed income. A few years ago, I could pay my bills and then treat myself to $25 or $30 a month of fun … usually books, DVDs or treating hubby to a night of carry out so he wouldn’t have to cook. Now, I can’t pay my bills.

    But I get it. This has nothing to do with COLA. /sarc

    And I’m soooo sure it also has “nothing” to do with unsavory facts like Nancy Pelosi’s net worth DOUBLING last year (she was a millionaire before it doubled) or like how more than half of the wealthiest legislators in Congress are Democrats or how like when they needed bucks to pay off the unions, they took it from the food stamp fund. /megasarc

    I try to think the best of people. It’s getting really hard. /nosarc

    • yomotley says:

      Can’t linkie from your name. You are still black, not blue — which I guess is better than being both black and bruise. Although, from your comments above it is obvious you have been bruised!

      I will try to help get you blue. I don’t like you black. Am I a racist?

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