Thursday Open Forum – December 2, 2010

Good morning!

Have a good time conversing today.

No need to hold back on those thoughts and opinions rolling around in those pretty little brains of yours.

Congratulation to Sundancecracker on getting plastered all over Facebook. Anyone who thinks he should start compiling his writings into a book, start your comment today with “GSG” (Go, Sundance, Go!).


391 Responses to Thursday Open Forum – December 2, 2010

  1. AFinch says:

    Good morning all!


    A belated welcome to Butch, Angelaisms, Stacee, Chrissy, Alabama Buzzer and any other new arrivals I might have missed yesterday. This is a busy hive.

    • Stacee Barton says:

      Thank you…

    • Jennifer H says:

      What she said…. :)

    • I just went back to yesterday to see if anyone noticed me poking my little nose in. Oh my. BLUSH!! You guys. Garsh. :o )))

      I got all three of my websites up to snuff and organized my business-y self as much as is possible for an artist … let’s just say, there’s a reason so many artists have managers. :o /

      Anyhoops, so there I was, kinda all caught up and realizing … being in business isn’t going to be as much work as starting up was so maybe I could have a day off and follow the honey trail from start to finish.

      First day, I just lurked and read. Here are my responses … Ooh, all the folks I missed are HERE! … blush … boy am I glad I didn’t read that USO thing … blush again … ah, cool, C4Pers might want my stuff seeing as I won’t be getting “paid” for all that free photoshopping I did to help his k-ness promote HIS biz with the promise of “free advertising for your jewelry for as long as I have a website” … blushing more … HB did hit 11 million. I had admin status over there and saw the hit counter myself so he isn’t a total liar but I won’t go into what I do think as it’s kinda personal, but just to be clear, I’ve forgiven him but I won’t be forgetting or getting anywhere near enough to get wounded again any time soon … and boy howdy is it good to see all the best of the best in one place … the site is not just friendly, it’s also nice looking! I love how clean and open motley made it.

      So good to see you allllll!!!!! It really is snowing in here today, isn’t it? I’m not imagining this LOL.

      • Shalini says:

        Chrissy!!! Yay!! :) You came in here, y’day? How did I miss that?!

      • Good to see you, Chrissy! Thanks for the update and for answering some of our questions (like wondering whether 11 million visits at HB was real). Are you able to give any insight into whether you think the other “HB guys” (Panda, etc.) are real vs. fictitious?

      • integrity1st says:

        Silly Chrissy that she didn’t know how adored she is/was. Also C, did you happen to ever see the number of subscribers over there? I, foolishly, want to spare all from what we went through = (

        PS When do we get the report on what you did while you were on “vacation”???

      • sundancecracker says:

        Yeah Chrissy is here…. Chrissymas came early And thinking about FtN this morning watchin’ the weather

        Yea, it’s snowin here all right…. flakes of joy and good cheer !!

      • Bijou says:

        Hi, Chrissy!

        So glad to hear you’ve got your businesses perking along. THREE websites? Wow!

        You DO deserve a day off (or two or ten)!

        No wonder you had to take such an ‘extended vacation’! LOL!

        Anyway, as you can see, all the cool kids are here.

        And you’re absolutely right about the format motley set up. We LOVE everything about it.

      • CAS says:

        So good to have you back and to see those pinchable cheeks!

      • Pat P says:

        Nice to have you here with us, Chrissy. This is better than HB ever was because it is more democratic, and kinder, though still fun!

        You know, I always loved the avatar you used of yourself with your quilt. If you used that one (although your grandchild is adorable), we wouldn’t all be reminded of HB.

        We all met at HB, it is true, but I think we are trying to put it behind us.

        Love you Chrissy, and I know you will have lots of things to share.

      • zmalfoy says:

        I just got here. There I’d been, wondering where all the old familiar faces (screennames? lol) were, what ever happened to Chrissy and others I’d seen all the time.

        I’m so glad to see you, that . . . that I was the one lost, not the lot of you. (Typical of a Malfoy, we automatically assume that it is everyone else who is lost, when it is usually ourselves.)


  2. JRD says:

    Buon Giorno Honeys


    Videos from David Horowitz’s Restoration Week

  3. Library Countess says:

    Aloha e Honeys!

    GSG! GSG!

    I’ll be back later for my regular fix… I am up but not yet awake!

    • AFinch says:

      Thanks for posting this.

      From the article: “As Americans, we are all different and we must celebrate those differences, not merge them into one hodgepodge of progressive mediocrity celebrating everything at the same time, while truly celebrating absolutely nothing.”

      Have you ever noticed that those who purport to promote diversity refuse to acknowledge how we are, in fact, different? Where’s the diversity in that?

      • sundancecracker says:

        LC and AFinch, thank you for that article. Indeed a great lesson in acceptance is missing in the progressive quest to eliminate all that can be diverse. Celebrating and respecting diverse culture in religious holidays does not mean any person(s) should diminish the value or faith of another. As Bijou pointed out a few days ago, we are a greater whole than the sum of our collective diverse parts. Peace, love, and genuine compassion dictate acceptance and appreciation for those things which make us each individuals. How much richer is each individuals life when we cherish our diversity and embrace a feeling of respectful humanity toward eachother. As opposed to an arbitrary need to stand atop a self created, and prideful position of greater importance. Do we make deposits toward eachother and lift the spirit, or do we choose to withdraw and diminish our own heart in the process.?

        I proudly stand with this family, and any family, who values, and chooses, love over hate. It is indeed possible to love very far, without surrendering self, and be on good terms with all people. If only progressive ideologists would grant the same considerations.

  4. Yeah Sundance…(paraphrasing Sarah) ‘write, baby, write.’

    Early this a.m. Matt Drudge has ‘up’ the Fed is bailing out the EU (Euro too big too fail?)

    The comments are stunning…by about the third one down, Barky was called a ‘madman’ and NO ONE was supportive in ‘we have to do this…’ kinda way.

    Nope. It was all ‘we are sooo screwed.’ It is becoming more and more obvious, Dear Leader (Soros) and his minion Duh Won WANT the US dollar to ‘epic fail.’

    And in a shameless blog pimp (err, pimpette?) way, can I put a few thoughts together on Georgie S.

    The whole of how much WE AS A NATION are being financially ruined for ONE MAN’S GAIN…just made me rant last night…

  5. wendy ann says:

    GSG!! GSG!! GSG!!

  6. Auntie Lib says:

    GSG!!!! Your poetry is awesome – and so spot-on!!!

    Good morning all!!!

    As many of you know I am already up-to-my-eyeballs-busy in the campaign for Steve Daines to unseat our junior senator, Jon Tester. I just finished a little video for a money bomb. Can I impose on you guys to “review” it (be gentle, I’m a novice at this) – and if you feel so inclined, to pass it on (email, FB) to anyone you think will support the cause?

    Have a great day everybody!!! See you tonight!

  7. AFinch says:

    How did I miss this? I didn’t know that Pfc. Manning (of Wikileaks infamy) is gay. Is it true or is Ann Coulter just having a little fun with her latest column?

    “I’m not a military man, but I think singing along to Lady Gaga would constitute ‘telling’ under ‘don’t ask, don’t tell.’ Do you have to actually wear a dress to be captured by the Army’s ‘don’t ask, don’t tell’ dragnet? What constitutes being ‘openly’ gay now? Bringing a spice rack to basic training? Attending morning drills decked out as a Cher impersonator? Following Anderson Cooper on Twitter?”

    Read the rest at

    • Library Countess says:

      I’ve seen it in numerous legitimate places. And I believe I saw a piece on CNN this week which mentioned that he’s gay.

    • Richdet says:

      I believe Manning had a boyfriend (allegedly a part-time drag queen by the way) who is a student at Brandeis right outside Boston. This is relevant because supposedly Manning would hang out with other students during his visits to the boyfriend, and in this way met, and established contacts with, hackers in the Cambridge area.

    • Richdet says:

      Looks like I should have read Ann C first, then done my posting. Seems that the boyfriend (or ex-boyfriend) definitely is a drag queen (strike “allegedly” from my post). AC cites the NY Times for her info. I seem to recall I read a similar profile in the Boston Globe. Same thing. Anyhow, thanks for the link. Good column.

    • Patriot Dreamer says:

      It is true.

    • Shalini says:

      When I looked at his picture the first time, I thought this guy looked like he was gay. Then I read the article and found out he really was! I swear, I’ve never done this before and it alarmed me a bit for a while!

      I wondered what being ‘openly’ gay means too, because I think I read somewhere that he felt he was being mistreated in the army for being gay. Frankly, I don’t get any of this!

    • Celestial_Dreams says:

      Can I ask … does anyone know what happened to YTZ4Me? I keep checking back here, because I was hoping she would chime in with her analysis/thoughts on the whole Wikileaks thing….esp with the China stuff … but nada.

      People better not tell me she’s on “vacation”.

      • yomotley says:

        I honestly don’t know. I trust her to know that if she has not shared where she is this week, then it is not my business. She is one awesome lady. We are pretty loose around here; meaning we don’t report to each other our daily happenings. However, I did get used to her in the short time we were working together, which makes her absence even more noticeable to all of us. She is a class act. It doesn’t hurt to pray for her and her family in case it is not merely life busyness that has her away but something else.

        Ytz does everything, it seems to me, with forethought, honesty, and integrity so I am confident she will share if there is something to share and necessary for us to know.

      • Jennifer H says:

        I had to laugh at your last line- Really !

      • AFinch says:

        Dittos to Motley’s comments. You can also check in with her directly at her blog.

      • sundancecracker says:

        YTZ is awesome, and busy too… “Vacation?” :) Thats funny, oh thats funny.. Nah if that were the case Motley, AFinch and crew would be driving to VA and dragging her fingers back onto the keyboard. All is good…. just busy I’m sure.

      • AliRose says:

        What if I said she’s on a brief respite? HeeHeeHee

        Sorry…couldn’t resist!

      • emmajeri1010 says:

        Individuals have a variety of things going on that may change their patterns. I don’t have a clue about YTZ schedule. There’s no reason I would!! :) Don’t overthink, peeps.

    • integrity1st says:

      from yesterday’s post:

      Integrity1st says:

      December 1, 2010 at 11:45 pm

      Thought you might find this interesting. It is also relative to a discussion the other day on the Safe School Czar:

      What the media leaves out: Army staffer who leaked thousands of documents to WikiLeaks website is homosexual activist – angry at ban on gays in military.

  8. butchcracker says:

    GSG…GSG…GSG..Been my mantra for some time now…..however my amazing,wonderful, intelligent,yet be him ever soooo humble honey enjoys a quiet invisibility. Perhaps though,with all the amazing support and encouragement found in your warm and welcoming hive….well maybe, just maybe….

    Thank you all for the warm welcome,as well as ALL the time and effort expended on this site..AMAZING,TRUELY……

    That said……my “honey do” list is OUT OF CONTROL!!!!

    You know the saying…behind every wonderous man…is an exhausted,burntout woman!!! LOL….Honey gets a break today(he’s worked real hard this last week)and mama has to hit it hard. Our little hive needs some attention……first off to gym…

    Again,Thank you all !! I enjoy reading ALL your posts!! Have a blessed day! May the sunlight of the spirit touch your soul today.


  9. Patriot Dreamer says:

    Looks like we’re looking for some Russian “moles” in the NSA and possibly DoD’s Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA):

  10. Patriot Dreamer says:

    Congressman Luis Gutiérrez wants the DREAM Act to be passed so bad, he’s promising civil disobedience if it doesn’t:

    • He is part of the problem and that is what ‘they’ all want….civil unrest that will prompt the ‘others’ to seek Octavius’ intervention to ‘protect’ us.

    • Ad rem says:

      To quote our wonderful Mayor of Los Angeles…..”We clean your toilets!”

      (I swear…he shouted that out at the last labor ralley in downtown L.A.)

  11. GracieD says:


  12. Patriot Dreamer says:

    The Fed secretly bailed out GE (parent company of MSNBC, NBC, and CNBC)!:

  13. Patriot Dreamer says:

    WikiLeaks Cable: Venezuela’s medical system in disarray

    I see some parallels to ObamaCare. We already have a shortage of doctors here, and ObamaCare is making that shortage worse. Millions of new patients but fewer doctors.

  14. emmajeri1010 says:


  15. AFinch says:

    In his latest, John “Doc Zero” Hayward addresses, Babs Bush, Meghan “Look at Me!” McCain and Sarah “Shadow President” Palin.

    • Jennifer H says:

      Good article, I love Doc Zero’s writings.

    • phillycon4 says:


      Thanks for posting. I was looking for Doc Zero recently and could not find him.

      I don’t know if anyone here reads Ace, but I have stopped visiting his website and now I know why.

      I happened to be lead over there by RS McCain, where Ace tackles this same topic. Contrast this Doc Zero piece with Ace’s. Ace goes on to blame Palin for “personal politics” and “7th grade” dialogue while acknowledging at the same time she did not start it.

      My problem with lumping Palin in with Babs Bush and Megan McCain is 2 fold:

      1) Is Palin not supposed to respond when constantly attacked? I just don’t get it, they call her “thin skinned.” But maybe its in the GOP DNA of just “taking it” to achieve that much elusive, holy grail of “gravitas.” After all, look at Bush and Rove, and how they handled 8 years of BushHitler. I guess that’s “gravitas” and “seriousness” for you. Look at how adhering to the Queensbury rules of debate have gotten us to this current predictament.

      2) After making this claim, Ace continues to say Palin does not engage in policy. How is this in anyway honest, frankly, its disingenous on its face. QE2? Yesterday’s tax FB post citing Thomas Sowell? Her most recent book full of policy questions?

      The majority of the criticisms are so hard to take seriously, b/c they are usually never rooted in truth. You expect it coming out of the Left, but the so-called “serious” thinkers on the right fall into the same trap.

      • AFinch says:

        Doc is a regular now at Human Events.

        Yes, apparently it is okay if you’re a republican to attack your own, but you’re not allowed to (1) defend yourself from attacks or (2) attack dems. To paraphrase Rush, it would be refreshing to see Rove or McCain or any of the Bushes to go after Obama with the same relish they show in attacking Palin.

        My newest line of attack against those like Ace and others on the right who mischaracterize Palin’s record, etc. is to say “Thank you. Now I know I don’t have to take your arguments or any of your alternative candidates seriously.”

        • Kristi says:

          Ugh.. I agree.

          When Chris Christie fights back.. he is a hero.

          When Palin does it… she is acting like a 7th grader?

          Sounds like a double standard to me.

      • phillycon4 says:


        It strikes me of self-loathing. The Republicans are always a target, that instead of lashing out at the culprits, they eat their own.

        Anyone with a pysch degree, please expand.

        • AliRose says:

          Ooooo…I feel a post coming on. This will tie in nicely with something I’ve been thinking about writing about. I’ll let you know when I post it!

          Thanks F!

    • Wow. I used to truly admire Barbara Bush. Now? Not so much.

      • Bijou says:

        Me, too, Chrissy! Also Jeb, who essentially agreed with her about Sarah.


      • Kristi says:

        Barbara Bush stepped in it before.. remember Hilliary firing back “I didn’t stay home and bake cookies”

        Never was a fan of Hilliary but that moment said alot to women out there… most of us have to work.

        I think Barbara Bush is just an 85 year old really rich woman who doesnt have a clue about what it means to be a woman today.

        I think Jeb tried to take the high road..

    • Richdet says:

      Excuse me for being the contrarian here (and I mean that sincerely because I am valuing all the remarks above), but I actually liked Ace’s posting. I felt that he was wrestling honestly and responsibly with the issue of Palin resistance or Palin fatigue, which I notice being expressed in various ways lately even by people who would no doubt vote for her if she runs. Me? I am sort of in a Palin limbo myself right now. I really like her but I wouldn’t mind not seeing a Palin headline for a few weeks.

      I live in MA, and there is a lot of chatter right now locally about Palin “avoiding” New Hampshire, and the implications of that. Seems that she has been turning down invites for some time now from Tea Party groups in NH, and is not taking her book tour there. NH being a key primary state, people are drawing conclusions. I hear more and more saying she is not going for it in 2012, but in 2016. If she is not running this next time, however, I think it is safe to assume she will play a major role in determining who does. Until SP announces one way or another, I am keeping an open mind about all candidates (with the exception of Mike Huckabee, who I don’t like at all, and who by the way I see as a serious concern for SP).

      As for the “personalizing” of issues that Ace addresses, I think that’s a fair remark, taken within his larger commentary. Palin needs to be on guard not to be dragged into too many internal party feuds. Whereas goodness knows GW Bush can be faulted for not engaging with the opposition, Ace is suggesting that Sarah Palin might be over-correcting in the opposite direction. I agree.

      I actually heard the Laura Ingraham radio interview last week. I was hoping to hear SP get to talk about her new book. Instead it was all “what do you think about Barbara Bush?” And “what does Chris Christie have against you?” SP took the bait on the BB question, resisted on CC. She should have finessed both equally, and let Ingraham deal with Barbara Bush as best she may. What next? Will somebody corner Nancy Reagan and get her to say something mean about Palin in the hope SP will give them another week of headlines?

      I feel Palin should be figuring out what Palin’s goals and agenda are, and watch out that she not become the vehicle for pushing the agendas of so-called “friends” who are looking to stir up a civil war within the party to settle their own scores.

      • AFinch says:

        2016? Shut your mouth. ;-) That presumes a republican doesn’t win in 2012–unless you’re suggesting she should primary a sitting republican president.

        • Richdet says:

          AFinch, you raise the question that people speculating about her plans (go now or wait for 2016) seem never to address. Are they assuming that she is assuming that an Obama victory is inevitable in 2012? Perish the thought, but that’s the only way that speculation makes sense: i.e., 2012 is a dodgy thing, 2016 is the sure thing.

          Let’s face it. We are all more or less trying to read the Palin “Tea leaves” these days (I love puns — my apologies to those who don’t). I am asking myself how far can any candidate for 2012 wait to announce? Won’t the first primary be just over a year from now? In 2008 I think Iowa had its primary a day or two after New Year’s. NH, maybe one or two others (?), were out of the way by the end of January.

          That means if SP is running, she has to show her hand sometime in the next three or four months in order to get her campaign operations underway and staffed in all the key states.

        • phillycon4 says:

          OK, then explain why Palin has 2 stops in Iowa for her book tour in the most Republican part of the state. Even Rove was saying how politically astute it was vis-a-vis 2012.

          • Richdet says:

            Did anybody ask Rove why she might be avoiding NH? Because, as I said, a lot of NH Tea Partiers seem to be getting their noses out of joint over it.

            I suppose Rove might say she is ceding NH to favorite-son Mitt Romney, who has a house there and was governor of neighboring MA. However, that ignores that McCain beat Romney in the 2008 NH primary. So I got nothin.

            McCain, by the way, is very popular in NH. His “maverick” thing goes over big there, even at this late date. I figured one reason SP endorsed McCain earlier this year was because he would come in useful in beating Romney in the 2012 NH primary. Like I said above, reading the Palin tea leaves about her intentions is very much a challenge.

            • phillycon4 says:


              This was last week, and it seems the NH story just broke. So, I don’t know.

              I guess I question the timing of the story.

              If Sarah goes to NH now, don’t you think that kind of tips her hand? My guess is that she wants to lay low for now re: Prez run. We will all know soon enough.

      • phillycon4 says:


        I can see where you are coming from re:Ace. But he made disingenous remarks, that Sarah doesn’t talk policy. I didn’t like that at all.

        I can safely assume that the last thing Palin wants to talk about are certain personalities in the Republican party, and keep focused on Obama. Maybe, if they kept their mouth shut, it wouldn’t be an issue.

        She has to defend herself to some degree, and the criticism that she doesn’t talk policy is where I part ways with Ace. He sounded like Allahpundit’s little brother in that post, all whiny and mealy mouth.

        • Richdet says:

          Philly, you are right on target on the policy issue. We are on the same page there. Leaving Ace aside, I would say that the press really wants to get Palin bogged down in these personality quarrels as a way of obscuring everything she actually says about policy. That’s what I think she has to guard against.

          I like Laura Ingraham a lot but she is also a pot-stirrer, with her own issues over the years with the Bushes (and apparently now with Chris Christie) and I resented the way she kept pressing Palin to talk smack about Mrs. Bush and Gov. Christie. So my irritation is more about Ingraham and not about Palin, but the interview suggested to me that Palin needs to be wary of not just the liberal media. Left alone, the Barbara Bush quote would have fizzled, been at most a two-day story. The Ingraham thing has turned it into a nine-day story (and counting). Which pleases Ingraham no end, and gets her name in the news, but she wasn’t doing SP any favors.

          • phillycon4 says:


            I’m done with Ace regardless. I’m not a self-loathing “conservative” who likes to trash other “square” conservatives who go on a ledge and take the liberal abuse from all sides (media, Hollywood, etc.).

            I sense there are some on our side who really don’t want to get down in the trenches and do the heavy lifting b/c its hard as sh**.

      • AFinch says:

        Okay, here’s my problem with Ace’s piece. He suggests that Palin’s response to every criticism of her is to play the elitist card. That is simply not the case.

        The fact is that Palin is rarely criticized for her policies and positions. When she is, she responds substantively. She rarely responds to personal criticisms. As I believe you noted at the time, Ingraham baited her into responding to Babs Bush to satisfy Ingraham’s own agenda. Was Palin wrong to take the bait? Perhaps, but that was one time when she has dozens of opportunities daily to respond to such criticisms. So to use that to argue, as Ace does, that she ALWAYS responds to EVERY criticism in a personal way is just plain disingenuous. To the extent she responds to personal criticisms she does so in a personal way–sometimes by calling the critic and elite. Otherwise, she responds substantively.

        • EZBurns says:

          Please keep in mind, no one,. even GWB has had the degree, intensity and pure number of personal

          attacks that SP has had. No one– and she’s not even a politician. It is insane and unprecedented.

          So what do you do about your children being attacked? Your marriage? Gang rape scenarios? Snarky remarks?

          This isn’t “SXY doesn’t think you’re experienced enough to govern, please respond”. This is low brow,

          bitchy, assholian shit that she keeps getting hit with (Barabara Bush is a sweet granny, but she’s got nasty

          side too).

          Honestly, she’s a better woman than I because I would have done some major damage by now. And yes,

          I’m South Georgia white trash so maybe I identify more with Sarah that most GOP snots.

          • AFinch says:

            Rural Indiana white trash here and I’m totally with you.

          • WeeWeed says:

            Great to see ya, EZ! Texico trash, here.

          • Menagerie says:

            Ooh, is South Georgia white trash a different grade than us North Georgia white trash hillbillies? I like your style EZBurns, and I agree completely, but I agree that it will be necessary for Sarah to take control of the media. Here I do remember that Reagan was an absolute master at that, and I think Sarah has that unique ability too. Provoked or not, she better learn to whip their butts in a way that turns it on them. I don’t believe the press has ever gone after anyone with the vengeance they have for her. I don’t know if it is the killer instinct in the ravening beast that they are, or if strings are being pulled, but it is because she is the threat to the future they have mapped out for this country and they know it. I have no idea what kind of president she might turn out to be – no one can be sure. But I’d bet a good grade of corn squeezins (that’s whiskey to you yanks and westerners!) that she’ll be hell on socialism in any and all roles she plays. The woman has power and they haven’t got a clue why. She doesn’t have to win an election to have it. She has it because she carries our spirit into the battle. She speeks OUR words, not some PC crapola taught at one of their universities. Please note, I make this our/their distinction because they (liberals, media, democrats) want it that way. You can’t lock us out of the governing process and deal behind closed doors, vote on hated health care bills in the middle of the night, march around with freaking giant gavels and a grotesque death mask smile and not get the message across – you lost, you don’t have a voice, you are not a member of our cool little club. They call Sarah dumb and sneer at the college she graduated from? Oh yeah, you bet they are sneering at us. Trouble is, we, not being ignorant as they believe us to be, know it. We refuse to bow down. Those blue bloods better know how to scrap.

          • Integrity1st says:



        • Richdet says:

          AFinch, the way I would address your question is to say I don’t think Sarah Palin should be “taking” anybody’s bait at this point, but choosing her targets more selectively. Maybe she coordinated the whole “blueblood” answer with Laura Ingraham ahead of time –in other words maybe Sarah wanted that fight — but it didn’t come off that way to me. What I heard was Palin trying not to dodge Ingraham’s questions, then realizing she was being drawn into some contrived “feud” and pulling back when Ingraham started bringing up other Palin critics, such as Chris Christie (who apparently also made some slighting remark, or gesture, about her on a tv show).

          My family background is all bluecollar and my wife’s family were farmers. I bring that up because I didn’t actually hear a “blueblood” attitude in Babs’ remarks. I heard an 85-year-old Momma Grizzly of sorts who wants her son Jeb to run for president, and is smart enough to know that ain’t gonna happen, Sarah Palin as an individual and as a “cause” being two of the main reasons it won’t.

          And I am sure forty years from now Sarah Palin will be making similarly blunt remarks (she does so now, which is partly why we like her!), and so it is hard for me to see SP and BB as real opposites, let alone adversaries.

          If I could have the honor of scripting Sarah’s answer at that point of Ingraham’s program, I would have had her say something like: “you know, Laura, I like the Bush family. I like Barbara. She was just being what I call a Momma Grizzly. She would like to see her son Jeb run for president. I get that. We all get that. Maybe one day he will. But as for me, whether I stay in Alaska or not is a decision for me and Todd and the family to make on our own. Thanks. Next question.”

          Not so colorful, not a headline-grabber. But maybe more of a direct hit. Because then it becomes an exchange solely about and between two people, Palin and BB, and not yet another altercation between Palin and the entire “elitist” or “blueblood” or “old guard” wing of the party, with BB as surrogate. With that reply, maybe Palin then gets to talk about her book or whatever she really wants to talk about.

          • AFinch says:

            I agree with your assessment and your suggested answer. I’m sure Palin realized her mistake too and one of the great things about her is that she is “coachable” and learns from her mistakes. I’m guessing we won’t see that from her again.

        • Kristi says:

          My problem is.. Sarah Palin posts policy and ideas on facebook.. what every day or so?

          Where is ACE on those? Crickets.

          To my knowledge.. no other R contender is posting anything.

      • sundancecracker says:

        Richdet, personally I think ACE’s article is a disconnected scuba dive focusing on the wrong syllable. Shes damned if she don’t and damned if she does, where “doing” is responding the the most insanely irrelevent, and ridiculously personal criticisms. Screw em’. She is…. as she appears to be … her own woman. She ain’t got no stinkin’ Romneyesque handlers, and I kinda’ like it that way.

        1. Democrats, and Palin haters, forget when Palin was the Darling of the Democrats, because as soon as Palin took the Governor’s office away from a fellow Republican and tough SOB, Frank Murkowski, she tore into the Republican’s “Corrupt Bastards Club” (CBC) and sent them packing. Many of them are now residing in State housing and wearing orange jump suits. The Democrats reacted by skipping around the yard, throwing confetti and singing, “la la la la” laughing at the fall of the Republican class heirachy. Name another governor in this country that has ever done anything similar, though Chris Christie is trying in his own way.

        2. Now with the CBC gone, there were fewer Alaskan politicians to protect the huge, giant oil companies here. So she constructed and enacted a new system of splitting the oil profits called “ACES.” Exxon (the biggest corporation in the world) protested and Sarah told them, “don’t let the door hit you in the stern on your way out.” They stayed, and Alaska residents went from being merely wealthy to being filthy rich. Of course, the other huge international oil companies meekly fell in line. Again, give me the name of any other governor in the country that has done anything similar. It took fortitude to risk face, career, and put it all on the line for a principle of purpose. It was the right thing to do for Alaska. No bitchin’.

        3. The other thing she did when she walked into the governor’s office is she got the list of State requests for federal funding for projects, known as “pork.” She went through the list, took 85% of them and placed them in the “when-hell-freezes-over” stack. She let locals know that if we need something built, we’ll pay for it ourselves. Somehow, she forced localities to face their own priorities. Maybe she figured she could use the money she got from selling the previous governor’s jet because it was extravagant. Maybe she could use the money she saved by dismissing the governor’s cook (remarking that she could cook for her own family), giving back the State vehicle issued to her, maintaining that she already had a car, and dismissing her State provided security force (never mentioning – I imagine – that she’s packing heat herself).

        I’m still waiting to hear the names of any other governors who would take such a bold stand (((( crickets )))).

        4. Now, even with her much-ridiculed “gosh and golly” mannerism, she also managed to put together a totally new approach to getting a natural gas pipeline built which will be the biggest private construction project in the history of North America. No one else could do it although they tried. Watching her do things like this while baking up a batch of brownies with her other hand, and redefining female conservatism around strength and courage.

        5. For 30 years, Exxon held a lease to do exploratory drilling at a place called Point Thompson. They made excuses the entire time why they couldn’t start drilling. In truth they were holding it like an investment. No governor for 30 years could make them get started. Then, she told them she was revoking their lease and kicking them out. They protested and threatened court action. She shrugged and reminded them that she knew the way to the court house. Alaska won again.

        6. President Obama wants the nation to be on 25% renewable resources for electricity by 2025. Hell Palin went to the legislature and submitted her plan for Alaska to be at 50% renewable by 2025. They were already at 25%.

        I can give you more specifics about things done, as opposed to style and persona. But that is what ACE wants to discuss and highlight “style and persona”. Why? Everybody wants to be cool, sound cool, look cool. But that’s just a cover-up.

        I’m still waiting to hear from any liberal or conservative the names of other governors who can match what Sarah Palin and her leadership in Alaska did in two and a half years. I won’t be holding my breath.

        She was content to return to Alaska after the national election and go right back to work, but the haters wouldn’t let her. Those that initially cheered her breaking up the CBC now feared her because she had gained the attention of a national spotlight and was, by her very nature, a risk to them.

        Now these adolescent screechers are obviously not scuba divers. And no one ever told them what happens when you continually jab and pester a barracuda. Without warning, it will spin around and tear your face off. They shoulda known better, but they didn’t. They/We have never known anyone like her in politics. EVER.

        So view Ace’s opinion as you will. However, the fundamental ideology behind his opinion piece is flawed because he, and others, keep drawing parallels between their “customary” frames of political reference. Palin is not customary. Never was before, and darn sure not now. So these references while good fodder for conversation are actually just disengenuous political arguments upon an electoral chessboard that no longer fits. You see, the chess pieces are moving, quite well mind you, all on their own. You betcha.

  16. Patriot Dreamer says:


  17. Patriot Dreamer says:

    Animated dramatization of the State Department WikiLeaks cables:

  18. AFinch says:

    Over at Legal Insurrection, Prof. Jacobson make some sound observations that the elites in the RNC would be wise to acknowledge: “Without the enthusiasm of Palin supporters the Republican Party is nothing moving into 2012.”

    • CAS says:

      “It does mean that the Republican nominee cannot win against Barack Obama without the enthusiasm and support of Palin supporters.”

      That statement is chilling to me. Conservative voters must come to grips with this fact: when the general election rolls around, Obama will not be defeated if we stay home pouting because (insert candidate name here) is not on the ballot. The only way to defeat him is by going to the polls and voting R.

    • Menagerie says:

      Seems to me that Sarah Palin, like her or not (I do!) has not just been a breath of fresh air for the Republican Party, but a breath of new life for a party stagnant and moribund. The Republican Party reminds me of inbred royalty, seeking justification for their existence from their own isolated membership, clinging to accepted rules out of habit and fear of change, and the fact that they now have a vested interest in self perpetuation, like all lifer politicians. I think Sarah scares them because she, like Reagan before her, has vision, and the confidence in that vision and the American people to make things happen. The establishment Repubs seem to believe their role is to put a patch and a spitshine on an out of control government. I believe Sarah has confidence that Americans can and will take control back and reduce the size and scope of the federal government. This is not something congress, or even a president can or should do alone. We the people must find a will and a way to unite and force this to happen. I am not aware of any specific ideas or plans by republicans to reduce the size of government. Why do we speak of a reduction in government spending and not a reduction in government itself? Would that not help cut spending? I am seriously asking your opinions. I have no training to enable me to render an expert opinion, but I haven’t been very impressed with the experts either. What do you think? Can we reduce spending by reducing government? What are some ideas we can unite behind, specifically, when it comes to reducing government?

      I was a young wife and mother during the Reagan years, but I remember two things now that seem pretty important to today’s problems. First, many, many people did not take Reagan seriously, did not believe he was qualified or had the right experience. I seem to remember a national conversation about “that actor”. Second, I remember some really hard times, but he had me convinced that we could, would come through it and be better off, stronger, he made me look to the future when our young family faced some very precarious times. He gave us hope, pride, confidence. We need that now, and I have seen only one person who impresses me as having the sheer guts to declare against all odds that we Americans can do what we must and forge a better future for our children, that we can win. I am ashamed to say that I don’t remember how Reagan got both sides to unite enough to fix the mess we were in, and I don’t know how someone can do that now. But I do know this: there will be no one, no one who can do what needs to be done if they cannot lead the American people to bring forces to bear on Congress that have never before been seen. I think we saw the opening salvo in that battle on November 2, but we must have a leader who makes people see that winning a battle is not the end of the war. That kind of leader will never be found on the professional political circuit. With both parties struggling to maintain their very survival and hold on their entrenched entitlement existence, citizens must unite under a leader who won’t stop with a little compromise to placate us. We need someone to lead, to inspire, to unite, and to persevere.

      • Menagerie says:

        Oops, forgot the most important part. GSG!

        • Yes, GsG!

          There are some things that may be redundant that I can think of:

          -do away with czars

          -do away with Dept of Education (former teacher here)

          -do away with Fed Reserve

          -do away with all departments, committees done by Octavius

          -do away with caucuses (had to throw that in there)

          -do away with EXECUTIVE orders except for war purposes

          -do away with unPATRIOT Act

          -do away with National Security Agency and Homeland Security as they duplicate CIA and FBI and are power grabs

          This is just to name a few.

          Oh, btw, Obama is Nero, Soros is Octavius. We are now the Roman Empire.

          • Menagerie says:

            And what happened to the Roman empire?

            • Well, they started out as a REPUBLIC, like America. They ended up an Empire, like Nero and Octavius want. They allowed themselves to be destroyed, much as us sheeple in America have done. The only real difference I see is that they outlasted us by a roughly a zero on the end of the number of years.

          • -and drill, baby, drill

            • Menagerie says:

              Point: we aren’t seeing any empires, Roman or otherwise, these days. If I remember my history, some of the final years of the Roman Empire included heavy taxation, corruption, army weakened by politics and corruption.

              Not the same thing, I know, but the former USSR was probably the closest in my years. I know there are complex explanations for the dissolution of the Soviet Union, but they did not fare too well in the Cold War when up against free market economies, democracy, and courageous leaders like Thatcher and Reagan who had the guts needed to stand firm against communism, socialism, and yup, liberalism too. You made awesome points, Alabama Buzzer.

          • CAS says:

            Good read Menagerie! I’ll add to the list: Dept. of Ag., Dept. of Ed., Dept. of Energy, EPA…

      • sundancecracker says:

        Awesome post Menagerie. Absolutely awesome. You are so right. The “heart” and I mean “heart” (fortitude, perseverance, honesty, grit, determination, purity, integrity) is Palin. Everyone else has a tinge of “what is in it for me” about them. A seemingly weird desire to do “it” as a career-ful enterprise.

        I don’t want a legacy thinking leader. I want a person connected to ‘us’… average, every day, formerly invisible ‘us’. We don’t have time for a poll watching, wishy washy, appeaser in chief. Heck, we don’t have time for a pragmatist either. We need a message bringer, a course steerer, an unabashedly patriotic “John Wayne” rocks patriot. Proud of America. Proud of the dirt under the nails. Proud of the callouses. Proud of the spirit. Someone who doesn’t cotton to Bullshit, and can just git-r-done. Someone willing to smack down the decepticon class and take tough, flippin horrible to swallow positions, and provide the missing political ingredient….. TRUST !!

        Cut through all the why’s and why not’s, and there is only one person for me reflecting that belief system right now. A belief system that must, repeat must, be built on honesty, character, and trustworthiness. Palin.

        • Menagerie says:

          Thanks Sundance. i agree completely. My biggest concern is not getting people to vote for her, but making them see that she will need US to stay the course with her after the election, when the work begins. Of course, the woman who sold Alaska’s jet and didn’t keep the cook on because she can cook herself may just surprise a lot of lifers with her ability to inspire the people. i’ll sacrifice a lot for my country, but don’t you dare take 5 or 6 vacations and rent whole hotels. 9r fly in chefs. Or not proudly fulfill your duty as commander in chief on Veteran’s Day, or any other day. Look the Kings and Prime Ministers in the eye as they shake the hand of the proud American leader of the free world. Serve us with courage , pride, and shared sacrifice and we will fight together.

          And I add the U.N. to rhe list. Remind me please why they get one Quantitavely Eased dollar out of us.

      • Jennifer H says:

        I was in high school, and completely a-political, but I do remember that after he was in office for a couple years I started hearing one Patiotic song after another. All of the sudden it was cool to love the United States of America.

        We need that patriotism back again.

        Palin/West 2012 :)

  19. Patriot Dreamer says:

    Cute Channukah pop video:

  20. Jennifer H says:

    GSG !

  21. Patriot Dreamer says:

    Communist Head Explains How to Use the Democrat Party, Cheers the Decline of ‘Anti-Communism’

  22. Patriot Dreamer says:

    State-‘Controlled’ Russian Company Set to Take Over Wyoming Uranium Mines


  23. Patriot Dreamer says:

    FCC Commissioner Bashes American Media, Laments Lack of Gov’t Oversight

  24. Shalini says:

    GSG! :)

    I know I am going to sound stupid but Sundance, may I know what ‘Whiskey, Tango, Foxtrot’ means? Every time you say it I keep wondering what it means.

  25. phillycon4 says:


    Driving around today, and saw two bumper stickers:

    1) Proud Liberal!

    2) Healthcare for Everyone

    Its just gave me a good chuckle. Poor clueless soul.

    • CAS says:

      It’s good that you are at a place where you can laugh. Whenever I see stickers like that, I fantasize about obliterating them with my bumper. Gotta work on that.

    • Shalini says:

      When will people realize that socialized healthcare is not the way to go? Socialism is EVIL. Period.

      I loved this op-ed by an Indian economist when I read it a few months ago. Thought I’ll share it here.

      Marxists declared that rights to free speech, elections and personal freedom were bourgeois illusions that did not empower the poor. So Lenin proposed a dictatorship of the proletariat that took away all basic freedoms, and instead offered the right to food, shelter and work. Mind you, nobody could sue Lenin for poor provision. Nobody could throw out Mao for the Great Leap Forward that killed 30 million people. Nobody could topple Stalin for murdering four to six million peasants in the Ukraine.

      The communist experience shows that giving welfare rights priority over basic freedoms is the road to serfdom. And the capitalist welfare state now shows that entitlements, although desirable and inevitable in democracies, must be limited and targeted at the needy, so that they do not hog all spending or bankrupt governments.

      • phillycon4 says:

        Healthcare for all is wonderful until its his grandmother, or mother, sister, or another family member is denied care b/c they don’t meet the “quality year assessment.” Hence, they are no longer valuable to the state.

        Reminds me of the horse character in Animal Farm. Creepy. And yes, Shalini, downright evil.

        Didn’t mean to come off as caliver in my earlier post, I fully understand the Orwellian dangers involved in Obamacare.

        • Shalini says:

          My frustration wasn’t directed towards you, Philly! It’s just that people are sometimes willfully ignorant, that it’s bizarre.

          I have to admit that one of the things I am really grateful for in recent times is that my country is leaning heavily towards free market capitalism.

      • Jennifer H says:

        Thats why the article that Patriot Dreamer posted earlier in the thread is so chilling. Our children are not being taught history, and do not understand the evils of socialism and communism.

        Government, Education, Media, and Courts- we Must take them all back. We have a hell-of-a fight in front of us folks.

        Fix bayonets!

  26. sundancecracker says:

    When I first heard CNN had actually committed to a Parker/Spitzer show my immediate reaction was, well so much for the ‘pretense’ of CNN trying to hold appearance of being in the middle. I saw that ridiculous primetime show as CNN joining the MSNBC crew of ideological content manipulation. Indeed to me it appeared CNN had finally conceeded and ‘outed’ themselves.

    I cannot stand tolerate even miniscule doses of either of these proported ‘respected’ (yes that is a CNN descriptive for them) talking heads. They are about as close to common sense as Obama is to humility. All that said, this latest development shows what happens when two ideologically liberal progs fight over who is ‘more better’. I am finding it enjoyable to watch this demplosion, but then again, I watch NASCAR wrecks too…

    …”Eliot Spitzer’s TV sidekick is so fed up with playing second fiddle to the hooker-loving ex-gov that she’s threatening to walk, sources told The Post yesterday.

    Washington Post columnist Kathleen Parker actually stormed off the set of the “Parker Spitzer” show during a pre-taping a few weeks ago — furious that her co-host is continually allowed to take charge of their nightly CNN chat-fest, the insiders said.

    Although still fuming, Parker did return to wrap up the segment, they said.

    But she’s angry that the show’s producers are allegedly doing nothing to play up her strengths on the ailing show, the sources said”…. Read more:

    **** Note to Parker **** Try higher heals, shorter skirts, and maybe some fishnets and you might stand a chance with him….. just sayin’…

    • phillycon4 says:


      I saw this item yesterday. This is show is horrible. CNN is really scrapping the bottom of the barrel with Client #9. I view this as karma for Ms. Parker.

      • sundancecracker says:

        Philly, you are soo right. I didn’t think about the Karma angle, but now you mention it… You are 100%. Frilliant !!

        “Karma’s a bitch Parker”… hey that’s analogous too :)

    • re: Note to Parker …….. me needs to clean spit off monitor.

    • Richdet says:

      I seem to be a flack today for the Ace of Spades website, having already mentioned it in another post (lately it’s one of my must-visits every day). But I thought he had a good take on this Kathleen Parker kerfuffle in a posting he did Wednesday afternoon, supplementing the story in the NY Post. I have to say I despise Kathleen Parker for her treatment of Sarah Palin, and I haven’t yet had the fortitude to subject myself to this new program of hers. Come to think of it, I can’t remember the last time I watched anything on CNN.

      • Ad rem says:

        CNN is that station that always seems to be playing in the airport terminal or the hotel lobby….the one you wish you could reach up and change. Ugh!

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