Open Forum: November 30, 2010

One of the dogs has been tearing up the dog beds.

We couldn’t figure out which one.

We finally identified the culprit.

The doors are open. Have at it.

296 Responses to Open Forum: November 30, 2010

  1. AFinch says:

    According to this article in the WSJ, the Russians started moving tactical nukes closer to NATO allies in late spring of this year, which contradicts 20-year old pledges from the Russians to pull back these weapons from their borders. Pres. 0 signed New START in April. Prior to that, the 0 administration scrapped plans to build missile defense shields in eastern Europe.

    So, right after the Pres signs a treat that limits our nuclear defense capabilities and doesn’t address the tactical nukes, the Russians reposition their nukes to threaten our allies. But of course, we can’t begin to address Russia’s tactical nukes until we ratify the New START.

    • emmajeri1010 says:

      The message that is delivered when you lay the narrative out like this just sort of leaves me speechless. Informed, but speechless. As someone else said somewhere earlier today ANGRY DITTOS.

  2. AFinch says:

    Big suprise: Jeb sides with Mama Bush over the Mama Grizzly. Sort of.

    • yomotley says:

      I notice the article includes the imaging catch-phrase “fantastic political instincts”. We have been seeing this underhanded compliment for awhile. Sarah’s biggest attraction is she is, like, NORMAL and not from DC. But any positive adjective before “political instincts” when talking about her is so people will start imaging her in their minds as a politician. Imaging Sarah a politician is putting it in people’s brains she is a liar, cheat, manipulative, insincere, spouse-sheating, sleazy, establishment, RINO. It also images her as an amateur politician, thus, naive and may not be ready for the “Big Boys”.

      Here is sample of how to address this in the comment section:

      “Former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush is supporting his 85-year-old mother in her apparent feud with former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, while also praising the former GOP vice presidential candidate for having “fantastic political instincts.”

      Those are not political instincts, Jeb. Those are American instincts!


      Notice the response then images in the readers brain that Sarah is American and Jeb is not?

    • phillycon4 says:


      I wish the Bushes would go away and just stay in Texas.

      They have severely damaged the Republican Party, and are partly to blame for the current mess.

    • emmajeri1010 says:

      I’m slow to not take things at face value, but I believe I’m learning. I so appreciate George W and Laura, but I do believe I’m becoming well-nigh vexed with the Bushes as a clan. Their perspective of themselves as a group is far less palatable than what they seem to be as individuals. Irritating and becoming more so. Are they going to start functioning now, in the public eye, as RINO movers and shakers? Some will say “they’ve been that all along”….and I guess that where I miss the nuances. Makes me want to personally go ATP (Across The Potomoc) and personally build a personal fire with hot flames under the personal feet of ever supposedly personal Representative of the People and scream in their personal face, “I’M WATCHING YOU.”

  3. yomotley says:

    This is no different that some descriptive words and essays used at “another site” that should have desensitized me to the subject matter; especially since I now am enlightened (wish I was not) to the inside skinny on the gay sex life.

    This sickens me. I do not like our money being used to promote straight or gay public pornography and debauchery. How many middle schools this month will have the Smithsonian as a field trip? The answer would be very interesting.

    • emmajeri1010 says:

      I’m sorry to do this this way. I still don’t understand how to do links online (although I do know how to do them for sending as e-mails). The article below (of which I have deleted quite a bit for sake of space) is from the American Thinker, October 2009. Just go to AT and search “safe schools czar” and it will bring it up. It clarifies a lot of sickening information.

      October 08, 2009
      Kevin Jennings’ twisted terminology
      By Troy Silva
      “Kevin Jennings is Safe School Czar not by some vetting breakdown. He was an official in the Obama Campaign as its Gay-Lesbian-Bisexual fund-raising co-chair. For twenty years until 2008, Jennings succeeded on a massive scale at pro-homosexual propagandizing of school children. His adeptness and accomplishment at semantic deception are extraordinary.

      “In a 1990 “report” for the Massachusetts Governor’s Commission on Gay and Lesbian Youth, it was Jennings himself who re-coined the very term “safe school” to mean a pro-homosexual school. Just as the word “gay” is forever tainted and can now rarely be used in its original sense without prompting the snickers or confusion of the listener, so the term “safe school” is now a post-op product of Jennings that bears no similarity to its original meaning.

      “This fairly recent change is lost on most of the public, to the severe detriment of millions of American children in public school whose curriculum is controlled by edu-crats who use the Jennings definition. The term “safe school” in the fraudulent sense used by Jennings, et al, must not be confused with the original sense of the term, which was quite literal. The term in this original sense dates at least to the Reagan-era Department of Education “safe school” initiative to curb drug and alcohol use in schools. Remember the “Just say no” campaign of that era? Today, however, the term in the speciously redefined sense is now used on the Department of Education web site, where incidentally it states that Jennings and his partner, Jeff Davis “are the proud parents of three dogs”, including a “grand dog”. The cultural notion of what constitutes absurdity has slackened a bit, has it not? Were Ronald Reagan to have read such a line, he would most assuredly have thought it a spoof!

      “Jennings boasted in a 1995 speech entitled ‘Winning the Culture War’ that he “tilted” the 1990 Massachusetts report with use of the term ‘safe’ in order to put opponents of pro-homosexual curriculum in that state ‘on the defensive’. His national template, used over and over in hundreds of districts and thousands of schools across the country, is to fabricate an epidemic of bullying and violence to homosexuals in schools, in part by citing bogus census or other statistics where classes of people are conflated to come-up with artificially high numbers of incidents of sexual-orientation-based ‘bullying’, ‘harassment’ or violence.

      “The next step is to contend that the only solution is to make ‘allies’ out of 100% of the straight students in the school or district. “Allies” are made by implementing a usually district-wide ‘safe-schools’ or ‘anti-bullying’ curriculum that force-feeds homosexual propaganda to kindergarten through 12th grade. Prominent psychologists and psychiatrists who oppose them notwithstanding, these towering intellects that run school districts reject all research that will contradict their foregone conclusions.
      “The term ‘ally’, a play on Jennings’ Gay-Straight Alliance, is another buzzword which denotes a straight student who worships LGBT’s and unequivocally endorses their lifestyle, and who reports on any student who so much as voices an opposition to homosexuality. Such voiced opposition is punished as the ‘bullying’ of a ‘hater’. ‘Ally of the month’ awards are then handed-out at monthly school assemblies. Even assuming for the sake of argument that there were an epidemic of bullying and violence at schools against homosexuals, the contention of parents who oppose the pro-homosexual curricula is that what the schools are doing is unconstitutional. The purported end does not justify the means here. Those pushing this pro-homosexual curricula, who omit from the equation the Constitutional rights of the parents and children who oppose them, ought to be able to understand this concept. ”

      “In his revelatory 1995 speech, Jennings accurately stated that in order for his side to win, it was essential to keep control of the terminology, especially the term “safety”. He admittedly seized on the pre-existence of this popular Reagan theme and nomenclature of ‘safe schools.’ The tactic worked well for him; he got his pro-homosexual curriculum in Massachusetts. And if it worked in Massachusetts, Jennings realized that it could work nationwide — and it has.”

      This isn’t even half of the article. And in the rest of it, the writer also clarifies and untangles how this fed into the obaMadministration’s motives and the instinctive revulsion of parents when obama decided to preach to all the kids in the classroom a little over a year ago when school started in the fall of 2009.

      Rush occasionally makes the statement that “words matter” and another one, “We’ve lost the language.” This article at AT blatantly illustrates the truth of both those statements.

      The Dept of “Education,” the bureaucrats and the czars HAVE GOT TO GO. It won’t matter if Sarah Palin and West and John Wayne are put in the White House if the lifetime bureacrats and the power-wielding, unaccountable czars are still there. If we don’t get cast iron crowbars out and pry out all the smelly little bats that occupy Washington in their hundreds of thousands, protecting their manuals, their zip drives and their e-mail stashes, nothing will change. It will just go underground.

      • AliRose says:

        for future reference…when you’re at the article you want to link, just highlight the text in the address bar at the top, then copy and paste it into the comment box.

    • sundancecracker says:

      Not being prudish but this exhibit is far beyond the pale and it sickens me that our tax dollars fund this crap….. ONLY a hard line progressive/leftist ideology would find “Art” in depictions such as represented in this Smithsonian exhibit. Granted the abstract curriculum of ‘humanities’ was never a strong suit for me… But this stuff is ridiculous.

    • CAS says:

      “This is an exhibition that displays masterpieces of American portraiture”

      Then it does nothing to recommend American portraiture.

  4. Jennifer H says:

    Awww cute pup there,
    I love German Shorthaired Pointers.

    • AFinch says:

      You want one? ;-) I love him, but he is a major PITA. We got him when he was 5. Before that, he spent his entire life in a condo in Chicago, alone for hours at a time, which I’m convinced caused his neurosis. He should be hunting, but alas, chasing tennis balls on 4 acres is the best I can offer him.

      • Jennifer H says:

        LOL have 15 acres here so would have plenty of room- but we have three already and my plate is full! They really do need room to run it’s too bad that people don’t check into the the needs of the dog breed they are interested in owning before they buy.

    • yomotley says:

      Jennifer, good to have you as one of us “early risers”! Sounds like you may have gotten yourself a dog!

  5. yomotley says:

    One of my regular haunts is “Black and Right”. Here is their latest (comments are good, too.)

    • sundancecracker says:

      This is another example of allowing “fuzzyness” in the legal system of immigration. There is, and always has been, a legal path to being a citizen or registered legal immigrant (green card holder). Sorry, but we are a nation of laws, and lawful citizenry, including immigration laws and legal immigration citizenry. This student took full measure of the educational system, but chose to ignor the legal requirements of visa-renewel, or immigration request. So, yes, she should be dispatched back to the nation she originated from. Then perhaps she will follow the correct legal path to gain entry.

      As the article says. “Again, Why is this OUR problem”.

  6. yomotley says:

    Good site to learn about Islam. I will warn you; there is a lot to read. Some canned be tossed overboard. I have not read everything; shoot me if it is radical and I did not catch it.

  7. Menagerie says:

    My black lab tears up every bed we buy. The older dog hates him for it. She used to have a bed inside and one on the porch she would drag around wherever she wanted.

    • AFinch says:

      Love that image of the older dog dragging her bed around. I wouldn’t say that our two older dogs hate the GSP, but their lives would be much more peaceful if he weren’t around.

      • Menagerie says:

        Peaceful……..those days are gone. The older female golden retriever was an only dog long enough to get very spoiled. Then came black lab puppy. She was not happy, but learned to ignore him. Then we rescued two other dogs (males) and she is permanently disgusted. It was funny to watch her drag the bed around. Our back porch is about 12′ off the ground and has a view of the woods. She moved the bed to view whatever she was in the mood for, or next to the house if she was pouty.

        • AFinch says:

          Your house sounds like mine. We had four until our oldest crossed the rainbow bridge (h/t MQC) about this time last year. He was a boxer/pitbull mix that we rescued after he bit someone. We discovered he had separation anxiety AFTER we left him alone for 30 minutes in a spare bedroom and returned to find our brand new carpet shredded where he was literally trying to dig under the door to get out. (He wasn’t very smart, but he was very, very sweet.)

    • Auntie Lib says:

      Just have to share my “dog bed story”. Our older dog, Harley, was an “only child” for about 7 years and then about 3 years ago we got Alfie who was a little over a year old at the time. From puppyhood Harley had his bed in a port-a-crib that we bought to keep him caged when we left him home alone. (Which worked for a couple of months until he learned to jump out of it – then we cut one end open and he comes and goes as he pleases.) Harley considers his bed sacred territory and even toys that were carelessly tossed in were unceremoniously tossed right back out. Enter new puppy. See bed. See puppy jump in bed. See puppy mess up blankies. See puppy jump out of bed. Watch Harley jump in bed and wonder why blankies are not in normal position. See puppy jump back in bed. Watch Harley toss puppy right out of bed.

      It is now Alfie’s mission in life to sneak in Harley’s bed just to annoy him. Just like a couple of little kids. “Mom!!! Alfie’s in my bed again!!!!”

      Here’s a very short video that my son took of the two them the other night:

      (I hope I did that right!) Now I’ll stop with the dog stuff.

  8. Kristi says:

    Good Morning all!

    Ahhhh… I do not have to work today!

    Think I will put up the Christmas tree.

    • integrity1st says:

      Sounds soooooooooooooooo nice. All I confront is stress, stress, stress, and if I don’t deal with it, I’m even more screwed. (sigh)

  9. phillycon4 says:

    Morning fellow comrades:

    I need to go back and read your post on talking to people. B/c I have been talking to several friends about politics, and its been exhausting.

    Questions for everyone here: Do you think a moderate is electable considering what happened with John McCain? What do you say to people that it wasn’t McCain’s fault for losing, but the bad economy?

    • phillycon4 says:

      Let me be more specific, can Romney beat Obama?

      • AFinch says:

        In what world is Romney, grandfather of Obamacare, a moderate? To answer your question– can a moderate win–I say yes, we elected Bush twice. And Obama was elected because he sold himself as a moderate.

        It all depends on your perspective. To those on the left, the Clintons were moderates. To those on the right, the Bushes were moderates. McCain lost for a whole host of reasons, but mainly because he could not distinguish himself from Obama in ways that were most important to his base.

        Can Romney beat Obama? In two years I think my dog (pictured) could beat Obama. But will we be better off? Conservatives will have a once in a generation opportunity to elect our dream ticket in 2012. Why would we waste it on Romney?

      • phillycon4 says:

        My own bias comes into play here, I don’t see moderates running effective campaigns from a historical perspective. They are reluctant to draw sharp contrasts, and “attack” for fear of “alienating” Independents.

        I don’t have confidence that Romney would throw any punches, and major issues like Obamacare would be neutered. I often wonder how he would handle the glare and intense media scrutiny of challenging, “teh One.”

        I think people underestimate Obama’s political skills at their peril, he may not govern well, but he is a gifted agitator. Plus, he will have the media once again in his corner.

        • yomotley says:

          “They are reluctant to draw sharp contrasts, and “attack” for fear of “alienating” Independents.”

          Sounds like moderate, then, is a synonym to politician, huh?

        • phillycon4 says:

          Good one, motley! I wish my moderate friends had your analytical and critical thinking skills … its so frustrating talking to smart people who can be so easily lead.

          • AliRose says:

            One of the key things to keep in mind when you are trying to convice others of your POV, is that they need to reach that decision on their own. So…the most effective thing you can do is to “plant seeds” for them to think about. Don’t trap yourself into thinking that you were unsuccessful if they don’t change their mind. That’s not the best way to measure your success. If they think about you said afterward, that’s a win.

            When it comes to politics, try to avoid talking about people altogether. Focus on the issues/qualities you would like to see of someone in office. Once you start talking people, you’ve lost already, because nobody fits the bill perfectly (especially not for everyone). Once you’re satisfied with what your (and your friends) mutual goals are, you can begin to compare that to potential candidates and look for the best fit. (Think about all those candidate-matching surveys on the internet, that help you choose whom to vote for. It’s kind of like that.) Just be prepared to focus on and admit where your picks fall flat. Believe it or not, the more you’re willing to give, the more your friends will, as well. They need to see that you’re not a Kool-Aid drinker too, so to speak.

            I hope you don’t mind my putting my two cents in. Communication is one of my fortes.

            • CAS says:

              Loved what you have to say here. Please chime in often, you have much to offer.

            • Debra says:

              Love this, AliRose. My husband is a natural at this. He won’t mention parties, or people, but he’ll bring up a topic like unions or regulations, talk about how it hurts businesses, and can get my mom to agree with him in a nice, kind way. Of course my mom is a democrat, but really she’s such a swing voter they can’t always count on her. I think she says she’s an independent, but really she votes for whoever she likes the most.

              I really liked the way you phrased this – it’s really a good strategy, I think. I’m not so good at it, though.

            • AliRose says:

              Thanks! I’m going to try to give my “psychological” take on everything over at I’ll link here if I post something particularly relevant.

      • emmajeri1010 says:

        I used to like Romney. I don’t trust him. If for no other reason….that he was the papa of obamacare, Jr. in MA and has never said obamacare was a bad idea, that I’m aware of.

        I have never heard the word “moderate” used with regard to politicians in a way that makes me comfortable. It always makes me wonder what they’re trying to hide. “Moderated”…..from what? Was there something “too extreme”? Who decided it was “too extreme”? “Moderate politician”…..always gives me the feeling they just want to find a way to grab those 20% (or less) of “independents” who are always the swing voters so that they, themselves, can get elected.

        I’m so sick of having to spend endless amounts of energy trying to PRY OUT OF PEOPLE who they really are.

        I don’t want moderate Americans leading us.
        I don’t want a President who is moderate about America.
        I don’t want a Congress that is moderate about our Constitution.
        I don’t want bureacratic infrastructure that is moderate about personal liberty.
        I don’t want a highway department that is content with moderately good highway construction.
        I don’t want a healthcare system that is moderate about diagnosing and treating cancer.
        I don’t want public water departments that are moderate about toxins in our water supply.

        I don’t want auto manufacturers that think moderate quality in steering systems are ok.
        I don’t want a furnace that works moderately in blizzards (like we have this morning).

        Why on earth would we deliberately aim for a moderate in the White House? I’m sorry….I don’t get it. “Moderate” DOES mean something…..and I think a lot of really bad stuff has happened in this country because people aren’t clear on what it DOES mean. (And I’m not sure I can clearly say what it means: I just know it’s usually used as a political deoderizer in a room that has a fresh dog dump laying in the corner.)

        • Bijou says:

          Emma, Bravo! Excellent!
          When I think ‘moderate’, I think ‘mediocre’, and I say to hell with it.

          Just for fun, I looked it up.
          mod·er·ate: /adj. mod-er-it, mod-rit;
          1. kept or keeping within reasonable or proper limits; not extreme, excessive, or intense: a moderate price
          2. of medium quantity, extent, or amount

          3. MEDIOCRE or fair: moderate talent
          4. calm or mild, as of the weather.
          5. of or pertaining to moderates, as in politics or religion

          • integrity1st says:

            I agree with all of the above posts, but also fear it is because we all think similarly. The big issue then is to get others to think the same, or, more accurately put, see the light ;)

          • NeeNee says:

            Doesn’t Rush always say,
            “Being a moderate is the most
            gutless choice you can make?”

            Or is it being ‘liberal’?

          • Kristi says:

            McCain lost because the black guy gave a good speech. Sorry.. but why on earth would so many republicans cross over and vote for him?

            Heck,…. ME a total conservative who has never voted republican sent Obama money.
            I didnt vote for him… Rev Wright woke me up.

            McCain didnt want to be mean to anyone… all while the media was doing everything they could to destroy Palin.

            • sundancecracker says:

              Many people sleepily voted for a slogan “Hope and Change”…. But what they got was “Hoax and Chains”.

              They are awake now.

        • phillycon4 says:

          Emma, Bijou, Ali Rose, and everyone else, thank you.

          Integrity, you are right … this is why I ventured out of my comfort zone and took a beating sort to speak. Here in the NE, its the cocktail party’s home base.

          Ali, I agree with you .. they may not agree with me initially, but my hope is to plant the seeds of truth.

          You know how Rush describes his “Republican friends” being all shocked that he likes Palin, well its like that for me.

        • emmajeri1010 said:

          I used to like Romney. I don’t trust him.

          Neither do I. Romney is not a man of his word, and he sold out to the “back room deal” crowd in order to improve his chances in 2012. Please read what I wrote about that here. I may copy and paste that comment below, but it has multiple links within it, so it would have to await moderation…

          • On February 5, 2008, Mitt Romney made a promise to the public to battle “all the way to the convention”.

            Then, less than 24 hours later, Romney met behind closed doors with unnamed “prominent” people and sold out to the shadow government on February 6, 2008.

            Then, on February 7, 2008, less than 48 hours after promising to battle “all the way to the convention”, Romney quit at CPAC with the lamest excuse I have ever heard for quitting a political race:

            “Frankly, in this time of war, I simply cannot let my campaign be a part of aiding a surrender to terror”

            When I heard that, I knew in my spirit that something was wrong. Nothing had changed on the terror front between February 5th and February 7th. Something else had changed. I believe that the “behind closed doors” meeting with unnamed “prominent Republicans” on February 6th is what changed. I believe that these “prominent Republicans” promised to help get the VP slot for Romney, and make 2012 “his turn”, in return for Romney quitting the race.

            That, not terrorism, is the logical explanation of why Romney quit.

            Romney’s excuse of “I simply cannot let my campaign be a part of aiding a surrender to terror” was designed to paint Mike Huckabee into a corner. Because, according to Romney, if Mike Huckabee didn’t quit and hand the nomination to John McCain on a silver platter, then Mike Huckabee would be “letting his campaign be a part of aiding a surrender to terror”.

            Huckabee responded in his CPAC speech on February 9th:

            I know that there was some speculation that I might come here today to announce that I would be getting out of the race. But I want to make sure you understand. Am I quitting? Well, let’s get that settled right now. No, I’m not. (Cheers, applause.)

            And the reason is simple — because I go back to that which helped crystallize in me a conservative viewpoint as a teenager when it wasn’t easy or popular to be a Republican or a conservative in my hometown, because I do believe that America is about making choices, not simply echoing that of others. Let others join the “Me, too” crowd.

            But I didn’t get where I am today and I didn’t fight the battles in a state that, when I became its governor, was 90 percent Democrat, by simply echoing the voices of others. I did it by staking out a choice, stating that choice, making that choice and fighting for that choice, to believe that some things were right, some things were wrong, and it’s better to be right and even to not win than it is to be wrong and to be a part of the crowd. (Cheers, applause.)

            Later that same day, Huckabee won another primary with 60% of the vote. McCain was getting panicked… he was running out of public financing money and if Huckabee won too many of the remaining primaries, McCain would not have reached 1191 pledged delegates to clinch the nomination… that would have resulted in a brokered convention, and McCain may not have emerged the nominee from that convention, especially if Huckabee had all of the momentum.

            So, what happened next? Romney sold out even more…

            On February 14, 2008, Romney “released” his delegates to McCain.

            In my opinion, his words and actions, both at CPAC on February 7, 2008 and upon “releasing” his delegates to McCain on February 14, 2008, completely confirmed that he had sold out to the shadow government in return for the promise that it would be “his turn” next time. Romney did not keep his word. Romney sold out principles in return for promises of future power. Romney did everything in his power to hinder an honest competitor (Huckabee) who was still trying to defeat McCain.

            Had Romney kept his word, and battled honestly all the way to the convention, I could have happily voted for a ticket with him on it. Now, however, I know that a vote for Romney is a vote for Soros. Now, I would vote for a third party Constitutionalist/Tea Party candidate over voting for the Republican Party should Romney win the 2012 nomination.

    • sundancecracker says:

      Philly, NO. There is no way a “moderate” will gain electoral success. Think about what “moderate” means today compared to just 4 years ago, heck… just two years ago. We have been driven so completely far left that the middle is now skewed somewhere between “Socialism” and “Liberalism”, but both represented by Big Government. No. NO. NO… No flipping way.

      I am NOT willing to accept any further loss of liberty or freedom in the cause of finding “common ground” or “moderation”. Phuck no !! Done. OVER IT.

      The question you propose should more rightly be phrased “can a candidate willing to give up just a little more of our freedom be successful and get elected”? This is not about Right or Left, Democrat or Republican, this is about freedom. This next presidential election will be about FREEDOM or the willingness to give up more of it. Everyone can roll up their individual political systemic contingencies and shove them up their collective cum-by-yah, hand holding, asses.

      “Keep your hands of my junk !!!” Period. Where my junk represents my freedom to eat/be what I want, wherever I want, however I want, in the quantitiy of my choosing, so long as my choices do not interferr with your own. I don’t give a flip what church you attend (or if you attend), I don’t care about what happens in your bedroom or any other room in your home, or on your property. I am happy to live a life of comfortable invisibility abstract of any desire to control yours.

      And I want, nay demand, the next president to respect that. Moderation, meaning we have to financially bail out California or New York because of their choices and their unsustainable progressive/socialistic and costly life choices that they cannot afford on their own dime. NADA. NYET. NO. Let em’ rot, go through bankruptcy, and re-organize themselves in a manner they can afford on their own.

      The constitution provides We the People to tell the federal government what powers we ALLOW them to have. The progressives and so called “moderates” have bastardized this constitutional republic to the brink of economic and social collapse. A moderate. NO FLIPPIN WAY. I want a tough as nails, slap you in the face, mannerly president to respect the foundational principles of this nation and this REPUBLIC. If that means am in the minority. Then so be it. But I’ll be damned before I allow one thought of moderation to permit any further loss of my own liberty.

      “I would rather die on my feet, than live on my knees”. I might suck at everything, but I have the right to suck at anything I choose. My life choices do not cost anyone a dime. I carry my own weight. I’m sick, sick, sick, of concessions, appeasments, and erosions of liberty in the name of “moderation”. I will continue to push back against that errosion until the “middle” again becomes the “center”. It ain’t even close to that point yet.

      And guess what?….. I AM NOT ALONE !!!!

      • Bijou says:

        Awesome, spectacular rant, Sundance! You. Da. Man!

        I’ve got two words for ya…
        1. Sarah
        2. Palin

        • GracieD says:

          And on that note, Bijou…

          OK y’all; here is my report on the Sarah Palin book signing:

          I got to talk to the people that I met in line, and a few new people. The first of the new is a bright young man fresh out of college. He LOVES Sarah, as he says “for her political views, but her looks sure don’t hurt”. I was reading Stop Shouting’s “My Rebuttal to a Progressive who Admonished Me to Play Nice” He loved it.

          I spoke with an older couple, who said that they were heartened to see so many young people at the signing. The husband said it gives him hope for the future of America. This was yet another of those “small world” things, this couple overheard me telling a friend how my father in law knew someone everywhere he went. I said PawPaw’s full name in the telling , and the wife asked me which son I married. That is how I started talking to this couple.

          Next, I spoke with a couple of people with the Sheriff’s office. They knew my dad, who passed in 1997, and recognized me as his daughter, since I look a lot like him. I had a nice conversation with them, and moved on to talk to the people that I had spent so much time with Sunday morning.

          As it got close to time to go inside, the coordinator, for lack of a better word kept coming out and telling us to be in numeric order, showed everyone in line what page to have the book turned to, etc. Finally I had had enough, and asked him: “What do you think we are, overeducated Progressives?” He looked at me like I had lost my mind, then the people around me started as we say in Louisiana, telling him about himself. One lady told him that we heard him the first fifteen times that he said the same thing. He kept emphasizing that no cameras or cell phones would be allowed in the signing area. Someone piped up with: “What do you think we are, Democrats?” That got a good laugh.

          The first 100 of us were finally let in about 15 minutes early. The line moved pretty quickly. The first 50 of us were in and out in less than a half hour. All of us were excited to see Sarah, and talk to her briefly. Sarah was gorgeous. She wore a black dress, with silver jewelry, and a flag pin. When I got close to the signing table, I talked to her security guy, telling him to take good care of Sarah. His demeanor led me to believe that he is Ex-SF. Having known a few SF guys, I have realized that there is a certain way that they carry themselves.
          I must confess, I broke one of the rules and had a sticky note with “Run Sarah Run!” under the flap of the book, which I showed her, and she said “let me sign that for ya”. I told her if she runs, I will definitely volunteer for her campaign. I also had time to show her the “Run Sarah Run!” on the palm of my hand. She gave me a big ol’ grin and a wink. Then, I went out and talked to people for a few more minutes hugging them “bye” before heading back to the office.

      • Jennifer H says:

        No you are not! ;)

      • Menagerie says:

        Here’s what I am sick of. I have been a registered voter since 1976. I have voted with the same values and beliefs for 34 years. Yes, I have matured, have clarified my positions on some issues, found greater understandings of the constitution, and grown in my responsiblity as a citizen prepared to go into the voting booth with knowledge and conviction.
        I have voted against many white men and women. and for people of color when they represent what I bevieve in. Now I am called a “racist” for doing the same thing I always have, for the same reasons.

        I do not support the Democrats because I disagree with them about spending, deficits, taxes, immigration, sbortion, national security, foreign policy, and government takeover of healthcare.

        I do not agree with liberal positions on global warming, energy policy, education, and, as near as I can tell, almost everything else. The only thing that comes to mind is gay marriage. I think civil marriage or unions should be equal for all, leaving marriage as traditionally defined by each religion to each religion. If couples, gay or straight, wish a religious ceremony, and they meet the criteria in the church of their choosing, fine. But no religious institution would be forced to sanction a union against their beliefs, or have their tax exempt status held politcal hostage. That, I think, is as close as I come to having anything similar in my beliefs with liberals.

        My best friends are a lesbian couple, one of whom is a pretty hostile Obama supporter. We have been friends a long time, good times and bad, We haven’t had a lot of political conversations, but there is a distance now. I get the feeling she really thinks that I am not giving him a fair chance, when she knows my values and has for years. We worked for the same company, in management, and she saw me work with and promote minority advancement, build a highly diverse team who were outstanding people and employees. It’s one thing for people to generically believe all conservatives are Southern republicans (yes I am), bigots (no I am not), but have any of you had experience with someone you know well buying this concept when they KNOW someone?

        Why do they suddenly get to be the gods of who is and is not racist? Is their only criteria for fair thinking and beliefs in the matter of race – pulling the lever for a black man? Is that the sum total of all that elite education, all the connections money can’t buy with the right people, all that their high browed, save the world thinkers can come to? What if you have a person of mixed race running against someone who is not half white? What if you have a heterosexual black man running against a gay black woman? You get the picture. If we make up politically correct positions, what do you do when someone more PC comes along? It sure seems to me that for all their whoopin’ and hollerin’ (homage to my southern un-PC ness) they vote a lot more on who looks more correct in view of today’s “in” liberal whatever I’m all torn up over in spite of all logic than any values.

        There’s my rant for today, because I don’t like being called a racist because they got a cause.

        • phillycon4 says:

          Someone said that with liberals the only thing that matters are what your opinions are, but with conservatives your character is the defining feature.

          I’m paraphrasing, so if someone knows the exact quote, please correct me.

  10. Patriot Dreamer says:

    AFinch, did you name your dog “Trouble”? LOL!

  11. Patriot Dreamer says:

    emmajeri1010, I think I might have found the YouTube video you mentioned yesterday:

    Opera Company of Philadelphia “Hallelujah!” Random Act of Culture

    • Library Countess says:

      This is filmed in the former Wanamaker store in Center City … they used to do Christmas shows every year so we’d take the kids on the train into the city for a big night out on the town. Even the eagle, the Wanamaker symbol, makes several appearances.

    • emmajeri1010 says:

      Yes, you did!!!! Thank you, thank you….so everyone can see it!! Happy dancing!!!!

    • Bijou says:

      Awesome! Thanks for posting, Patriot Dreamer.
      Who can not be inspired by this piece of music?

    • WaltzingMtilda says:

      Oh my home town…and my home department store (LOL)

      Lovely to see this for so many reasons.

  12. AFinch…what a cutie! Our little mixed bred (she crossed the Rainbow Bridge years ago–and we got our ‘Big Lovable Galut’ to replace her) used to take her special rag rug, now mind you, she was only 13 pounds, get a corner of it and ‘spin’ with it til she made a lump out of it. Then she would plunk herself down, mid lump, but with a ‘view’ of whatever struck her fancy. My dear m-i-l would see her ‘lump’ of rug on the floor; and when the dog got up, Gram would carefully fold the rug and ‘get it out of the way.’ Our little dog would go nuts, have to get the rug back, do the spin thing again, but then take a nap out of the exhaustion of it all. And those two did this constantly. Gramma never ‘got it’ that the rug was doggie bliss.

    Anyhow…saw this over on Brietbart’s Big Government (and on FR as well). The wonderful Michelle Bachmann is ONCE AGAIN doing the heavy lifting the rest of the R words in the House won’t…the conservative from Minnesota wrote this on seeking investigations on the legitimacy of the claims in the Pigford case (given US Census records show 18,000 Black farmers, yet 94,000 ‘claims’ have been filed).

    Well done…and I hope she makes the talk show rounds (Beck and Hannity both seem to really enjoy having her on.) The duplicity of then Senator Obama in all of this, with the follow up of his Administration rubber stamping the excesses could FINALLY be the impeachable offense we have all been waiting for. Btw, each claim equals $57,000!!! What is it with Barky and the number 57??? 57 States, 57 Caliphates…if it was Mr. Ketchup (John Kerry, who by the way, served in Viet Nam) I could understand the fondness…

    • Kristi says:

      Awww the “rainbow bridge”

      My beloved dog died in July, he was 15.
      He was an American Eskimo… just adorable. I love dogs.

      • emmajeri1010 says:

        I love that phrase, “the rainbow bridge”….never heard that before. I’m so sorry about your dog. They take chunks of our hearts, don’t they, and in the process, they give us absolutely everything they have to give, 24/7. Our Siberian Husky would lay his head on your lap real hard and let you hold him if you were here.

        • Kristi says:

          Here is the poem. There is a rainbow bridge website that you can post a tribute to your pet. I did it when Buckley, my very loved baby, died.

          The Rainbow Bridge

          inspired by a Norse legend

          By the edge of a woods, at the foot of a hill,

          Is a lush, green meadow where time stands still.

          Where the friends of man and woman do run,

          When their time on earth is over and done.

          For here, between this world and the next,

          Is a place where each beloved creature finds rest.

          On this golden land, they wait and they play,

          Till the Rainbow Bridge they cross over one day.

          No more do they suffer, in pain or in sadness,

          For here they are whole, their lives filled with gladness.

          Their limbs are restored, their health renewed,

          Their bodies have healed, with strength imbued.

          They romp through the grass, without even a care,

          Until one day they start, and sniff at the air.

          All ears prick forward, eyes dart front and back,

          Then all of a sudden, one breaks from the pack.

          For just at that instant, their eyes have met;

          Together again, both person and pet.

          So they run to each other, these friends from long past,

          The time of their parting is over at last.

          The sadness they felt while they were apart,

          Has turned into joy once more in each heart.

          They embrace with a love that will last forever,

          And then, side-by-side, they cross over… together.

          • Pat P says:

            Kristi, I am not ashamed to admit that this touched me so much that tears are streaming down my face while my dog sleeps at my feet.

            • Kristi says:

              I know its sweet.

              The website.. “rainbow bridge” has people from all over the world who post a tribute to their pets. They meet on Monday night in a virtual room and light candles.. its really sweet.
              When my dog died, I was so distraught.. my dog was with me 24/7.. he went to work with me…never left my side on the sofa.. slept in the bed with me.
              People from all over the world sent me condolences.
              Isnt that sweet.?

              Ah. I have his ashes here by me. Dogs are the greatest. I swear God sent Buckley to us. After my husband left us… my son and I went through a terrible depression.. and our dog made us smile when nothing else did. Little angel for sure.

          • Thomas Hooker says:

            This is on the wall at our vet’s office:

            Almost As Good As Your Dog

            If you can start the day without caffeine,
            If you can get going without pep pills,
            If you can always be cheerful, ignoring aches and pains,
            If you can resist complaining and boring people with your troubles,
            If you can eat the same food everyday and be grateful for it,
            If you can understand when your loved ones are too
            busy to give you any time.
            If you can overlook it when those you love take it out on you,

            If you can take criticism and blame without resentment,
            If you can ignore a friend’s limited education and never correct him,
            If you can resist treating a rich friend better than an poor friend,
            If you can face the world without lies and deceit,
            If you can conquer tension without medical help,
            If you can relax without liquor,
            If you can sleep without the aid of drugs,
            If you can say honestly that deep in your heart you have no
            prejudice against creed, color, religion or politics,

            THEN, my friend, you are almost as good as your dog.

            Author Unknown

        • WaltzingMtilda says:

          I hate that pets die. I call bullshit on the whole thing.

          Lucky for me my Gloria, Stewart and Lily will NEVER die.Ever.

          I also include in this statement Skippy the Class Hamster who I have thus far refused to give back because he is my wee buddy.

  13. Library Countess says:

    Wow… KO is really dragging the bottom of his barrel…

    As usual, I’ll bet he’s just so proud of himself…

  14. wendy ann says:

    HUH? What? Who? Me? Caught red-pawed…..thanks for the pic of your k9!

  15. Auntie Lib says:

    Mornin’ All!

    I was having trouble getting the site to load last night, but did get to see the video of the Halleluia Chorus. That was wonderful – thanks for posting.

    Today is youngest daughter’s 30th birthday – I guess that means that I should have all the answers by now. Unfortunately, I still don’t even know the questions.

  16. AliRose says:

    Good Morning All!
    I have a confession to make…When I found my way here yesterday, I had no idea why you named this site Honey Trail. I thought, “That’s a cute name. I wonder what it means?” For some reason, when I saw the word “trail,” I automatically thought of a path in the woods. Then, when I came to log in this morning, it suddenly all made sense. “Duh! I’m an idiot!” I guess I must have been really tired yesterday.

    Is it wrong to be eating chocolate cake for breakfast?

    • Ting says:

      I’m so glad that you made it. I tried the same message thing a few minutes ago for someone named Dana. I am hoping that is LongSufferingTribeFan, whose name was Dana, I think. But I am not as optimistic about her because this Dana seemed to be from a different state. Oh well, maybe it will work. If not, maybe the new Dana will like it here and stay!

      I think your blog is good – you should post a link for everyone here.

      • AliRose says:

        Thanks…I’ve linked my name, now. I was intending to do that before, but wanted to get something written, first. ;)

        Hopefully, that’s her. I always appreciated her insight. I just saw listingstarboard over in the HB OT. Is that someone worth tracking down?

        • Ting says:

          This is not my blog – I am just a guest, so I will leave it to the moderators to chime in about ListingStarboard. As far as I am concerned there were only 2 or 3 from HB that annoyed me, and they haven’t shown up yet. Well, okay, one has shown up and left in a huff.

          • AFinch says:

            You’re right. Generally, the concensus has been that, except for 3 of 4 people, all others (including ListingStarboard) are welcome unless and until they start demonstrating jerkiness.

          • Personally, I think that she left in a ROYAL huff! But, being under the rule of the British crown, perhaps that was appropriate…

          • yomotley says:

            Everyone should be welcome — even newbies to the discussion, lest we become stale with ourselves. When zipping around the internet and commenting on other blogs and sites, if the topic is something being discussed here, link them over. No need to be exclusive and blog isolationists.

            So much of what you all say, I find myself reacting, “Man, I wish more people knew this.”

          • phillycon4 says:

            Does anyone remember NM Gal? She was a good poster as well, and disappeared after the election.

    • emmajeri1010 says:

      re the chocolate cake: not if you’re enjoying it. If sometime in the next 48 hours, you have something that is a “good food” it cancels any potential “bad” of chocolate cake for breakfast. That’s a fact.

    • integrity1st says:

      Welcome Alirose. For the record, I had the Duh moment too! Also, chocolate cake is an excellent breakfast, but I do find fudge brownies with lots of walnuts the better choice. Only, of course, with ample milk on hand.

      • AliRose says:

        I’m really glad YOU are here. For some reason, I just had this feeling that you were lost forever (you and LSTF). I don’t know why. Good to know that I’m wrong sometimes. ;)

        • integrity1st says:

          If you are talking to me, there was a better chance I was lost forever than that I would ever find my way here . . . except for being a reader on Mary Contraries blog – – – which just happened to be set up around the time of the USO debacle. There are some amazing miracles surrounding what happened you know where, so I am confident we shall gather the rest, as long as we don’t rest until we do ;)

          So glad to know you’re wrong . . . sometimes [smile]

          Welcome Home.

    • phillycon4 says:


      Its great to see you! BTW, I usually find Oreos to be a sufficient breakfast treat …

    • CAS says:

      Wheat, milk, eggs? What could be wrong with that? Brings to mind the old Bill Cosby routine on feeding his kids cake for breakfast: “Dad is great, he gives us chocolate cake!”
      For future reference , the calories don’t count if you eat it standing at the kitchen sink. ;)

    • Bijou says:

      Hi, AliRose! Welcome! It’s great to ‘see’ you.
      It is such a thrill every time a new honey shows up!

      And I have it on good authority that chocolate cake for breakfast is just fine, as are cold pizza and shortbread cookies.

      • AliRose says:

        I don’t know why, but it makes me feel all gooey inside every time someone calls us “honeys.” I used to like b**z**s, but now it just seems so cold and disconnected. Honeys is much better!

  17. AFinch says:

    I think someone mentioned yesterday that the Obama pay freeze is largely symbolic. The Heritage Foundation covers it in The Morning Bell this morning:

    It applies only to 2011 and 2012 cost of living increases. It doesn’t apply to seniority-based increases and it doesn’t affect benefits. Heritage goes on to propose what would be real, signigicant reforms to federal employee compensation.

  18. AliRose says:

    Ok…so I’ve made it all the way up the the Thanksgiving Thread (I can see I’m not going to get anything done today). I feel sad that I missed all of the holiday festivities, but really enjoyed getting caught up. Onward…

  19. integrity1st says:

    Break’s over. See y’all.

  20. AFinch says:

    Hey all, YTZ4me has a list of military charities up at her other blog, Stop Shouting, that you might consider supporting this holiday season.

  21. AFinch says:

    Karma–or maybe it’s the Israelis–strikes again . . . Wikileaks is under cyber attack.

    • emmajeri1010 says:

      There’s a link on Drudge this afternoon showing the star of David that the Israeli construction crews happened to leave (and it’s a really big one!) on the top of one of Iran’s very important buildigns when they did the construction (prior to the revolution, etc.) and the Iranians didn’t know it was until it showed up on Google shot from space!! Ooooops. I understand the Iranians thought they might get it removed. Tee hee!

  22. TXMom says:

    The Senate approved a Patriot Act For Our Food; the vote was 73 to 25 in favor. Texans, Senators Cornyn and Hutchison voted “No”. See which traitors (Republicans) voted “Yes” on S. 510.

  23. MrX says:

    I thought that as ex-HB people, that’d people here would at least be fans of Hillary. Why all the vitriol? If Hillary hatred is on the agenda, I’m out of here. I have no problem disagreeing with some of her policies or things she’s done. But the other post was over the top.

    So, has everyone turned against her? What gives?

    • AFinch says:

      I can’t speak for everyone here, but I was never a fan of Hillary. I was a fan of HB, so I overlooked the Hillary love and just agreed to disagree with the HB host about it. Out of respect for the host, I rarely voiced criticism of HRC at HB. That I’m doing so now reflects not so much a change in attitude as a change in venue.

      I just reviewed the HRC post from yesterday and I cannot see what about it was over the top. It is, in fact, entirely policy based. You are of course, free to disagree.

      • I’m with you, AF. My personal opinion of HRC was withheld out of deference to the devoted partisanship of our HB host. If “vitriol” is to be defined simply as disagreeing with someone’s politics, there will be no real discussion, dissent, or give-and-take, here. Sounds sterile to me, boring, and a waste of time as well.

        That is NOT saying that I’d enjoy being embroiled in daily free-for-alls, where I try to use my opinion to whack you over the head before you can whack me. But surely there is a middle somewhere between that and the Hillary love-fest that Kevin tried to maintain on his blog. Isn’t there?

        • sundancecracker says:

          FtN, That was very well said.

          • Thank you. If I just want to hear what I already think I can go and talk to myself in the mirror. And, personally, I don’t think you’re much of a partisan if you can’t even stick around to defend the object of your partisanship. Whatever else may be said about Kevin, he was willing to go after anyone and everyone who spoke a “discouraging word” about Hillary (which seldom was heard!)

            I have liberal friends, and one liberal son (don’t ask me how that happened–I have NO idea). My experience with them, which is pretty much being confirmed in my reading of Harry Stein’s book, I Can’t Believe I’m Sitting Next to a Republican, is that they’re not much into any real exchange of ideas. Facts are less important than feelings, which are WAY more important that actual results.

            Stein also wrote How I Joined the Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy and Found Inner Peace. He is a former liberal turned conservative, only the real deal, and wields a wicked pen.

    • sundancecracker says:

      MrX, perhaps you could clarify your definition of “vitriol”. Yesterdays “Wikileaks” post was pointed at the source and subject matter of the Wikileaks disclosure, The State Department. Hillary Clinton is the Secretary of State in charge of the State Department. What exactly was “over the top” in pointing out that it seems completely ridiculous for Hillary Clinton to be requiring “State Dept. Operatives” to establish DNA and Biometric data collection on foreign emmassaries?

      To me, the originator of the post, THAT state department mandate seems a little “over the top”. However, I am completely open to a counter position that would argue the merits of such a mandate.

    • Library Countess says:

      I suppose “hatred” is in the eyes of the beholder, but I really don’t think you’ll find any hatred here at all… it is not and has never been our way. We disagree with individuals based on policy, which is perfectly legitimate. AF is right; many of us were not Hillary fans at HB but out of respect, kept those opinions largely to ourselves. Now we are not limited as to who/what we may discuss.

      • integrity1st says:

        Warning Countess. I may spew a little vitriol on occassion, as she does sometimes provoke me to. It was just yesterday I was made aware of all her campaign finance fraud and deception, and I’m sorry, two things I HATE – FRAUD & LIES.

    • yomotley says:

      Welcome, MrX (I like that, “X” marks the spot, so to say)

      Why don’t you join in the discussion on the thread mentioned? The issues of the conversation are l). The Secretary of the United States going against international law and requesting illegal collecting of foreign diplomats’ DNA.
      2). The preponderance of whether or not the US proxy government has/is collecting citizens’ DNA 3). Dissecting why Hillary Clinton is now saying the leaks are naughty, which contradicts her statements with previous leaks 4) Someone is going to a book signing

      I have read over the comments very carefully and found two graphic exclamations of surprise about the hicky-leaks (Hill + Wick), one snarky remark about Hillary, one specific statement of clarity that not a hater of Hillary, and a graphic using the traditionally accepted format for political cartoons to show the obvious irony of Hillary’s turnabout. Nowhere is there hatred directed at anyone in the thread (Well, except toward one poster’s hopital/sick DNA). What is displayed in that thread is political discussion with playful humor in the scope of not agreeing with Hillary Clinton.

      You have graciously extended not having “a problem disagreeing with SOME of her policies or things she’s done” (caps mine for emphasis). Thus, you should be comfortable with the thread and the sharing of opinions.

      UNLESS, it is only SOME disagreeing with Hillary which is loving and acceptable social behavior and to COMPLETELY disagree with Hillary is hate. Is that how it works for you?

      (Hint #1: Just because you state it is all vitriol and Hillary hating on the agenda here, does not make it reality, Sir)

      (Hint #2: There are no “ex-HB people”. Many here posted over there, as well as elsewhere on the net, and were vociferous about not being on the same Hillary wave length as Count Buzzing-Beggar-of-Donations-So-I-Don’t-Have-Feel-the-Pain-of-Being-a-Grown up. And yes, #2 is snarky and a little bit smartassy, but Sir, it is not hate.

      You are welcome to stay around and engage in meaningful conversations, which includes staying on texts and actually thinking. Slandering others as hateful for their opinions is not staying on text, so please, leave that mantra at the door next.

      • Was it really hateful to say Hillary would’ve had a hard time to get someone to collect MY DNA? Maybe it was a joke, and I’m slow on the uptake this morning because my brain has frozen up here in the frigid cold.

        • I feel like a young girl today, back in Hawaii, where the sun shines while precipitation showers from the skies. Well, except for the part where the precipitation HERE is frozen!!!!!!!!!! Other than that, it’s JUST the same…

      • MrX says:

        Perhaps “vitriol” is too strong a word. I’m just saying there’s not a whole lot of love for Hillary here. When it’s 100% one sided, it’s not far fetched to call it hatred. So I’m glad people have found a new home here from HB. But there is no meaningful conversation here as far as Hillary is concerned. I post at HotAir for example and they don’t like her, but it’s not always one sided. So there is a definite difference in attitude here.

        With that, I take my leave of this site. Have fun. Each site has the right to post whatever it pleases, including this one. It’s just not for me.

        Thank you.

        • emmajeri1010 says:

          So apparently he assumed that the fact that our deference to our hosts (at HB) meant that we were Hillary supporters. Interesting that he apparently never was able to observe that anyone who ventured to disagree in a consistent way with Hillary Politics was invited to shut up or leave. His litmus test hasn’t changed. I don’t think we have a “hate Hillary or leave” litmus test here at all. Folks are welcome to explain their support for her, if that’s where they are. Very interesting. Besides the fact that Hillary is fairly irrelevant here. Sheesh….of all the threads/subjects that have run in the last 10 days….ah, well. We learn about one another by communicating.

        • AFinch says:

          Do you see what you just did there? You accused us of being one-sided (and by extension hateful), but you who are presumeably on the other side of this issue refuse to hang around to voice your opinion.

          If you’ve spent any time here at all, you would see that we are open to all opinions on all issues and everyone here is treated with respect. Perhaps if you spoke up in Hillary’s defense, others would do so as well. But because you refuse to join the discussion to offer a different opinion, thus making the entire discussion one-sided, it is us who are hateful for simply voicing an opinion. Wait, what?

        • NeeNee says:

          Mainly a lurker, but I concur with the analysis

          Hate Hillary?? No more like “scorn” or “disdain.”

          Had Kevin ripped anyone recently for hating Hillary? Just curious . . . .

          • integrity1st says:

            K recently posted a new, Why I Love Hillary Thread, but also know that I have on good authority, any anti Hillary comments were trashed before they saw the light. Not spammed, trashed.

          • GracieD says:

            I have never hated Hillary. I have simply disagreed with her politics. That does not make her a bad person. I think she did a great job with Chelsea. I believe she would be a much better POTUS than Zippy, but Sarah would be better than both of them.

        • Bijou says:

          Hey, KEVIN, how the phuque are ya?

    • MrX,

      You sound like the owner/author of HB…

      I’ve had just about enough of is conservatives calling Hillary Clinton a Leftist.

      You look really stupid when you do this.

      I say, let Hillary’s own words speak for themselves:

      “It’s time to put the common good, the national interest, ahead of individuals.”

      “It’s time for a new beginning, for an end to government of the few, by the few, and for the few, and to replace it with shared responsibility for shared prosperity.”

      “We’re going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good.”

      “I am a fan of the social policies that you find in Europe.”

      “I hope we will come together as a nation and do whatever it takes to keep guns away from people who have no business with them.”

      “We have to build a political consensus, and that requires people to give up a little bit of their own turf in order to create this common ground.”

      “We need to be as well prepared to defend ourselves against public health dangers, as we should be to defend ourselves against any foreign danger.”

      “I had a few ideas about health care, and I’ve learned a few lessons since then, but I haven’t given up the goal.”

      “Too many people have made too much money.”

      “I certainly think the free-market has failed.”

      “(We) can’t just let business as usual go on, and that means something has to be taken away from some people.”

      “It’s time to send a clear message to what has become the most profitable sector in the entire economy, that they are being watched.”

      “The unfettered free market has been the most radically destructive force in American life in the last generation.”

      “The money has to go to the federal government because the federal government will spend that money better than the private sector will spend it.”

      “I will fight against the division politics of revenge and retribution.”

      “I am particularly horrified by the use of propaganda and the manipulation of the truth and the revision of history.”

      “Why do I have to keep proving to people that I am not a liar?”

      Those aren’t Obama quotes. They are Hillary quotes.

      I’ve already given away the Hillary answers, but take the People’s Cube quiz:

      Which Collectivist Said It?

      And this is good, too:

      Quote Wars: Milton Friedman vs. Hillary Clinton

      • AliRose says:

        Wow! Thanks for posting that.

        BTW…I’ve always loved your Gravatar/ID…one of my favorite movies.

      • integrity1st says:

        Oh Red Pill, what a valuable asset you are. I could never do that. There is, however, a video of her when running for President where she proudly claims to be a progressive. Got that anywhere?


        okay, I’m gonna say it: Obama makes Hillary look like a saint by comparison, but she would have done ALL of this if she thought she could get away with it. We’re actually LUCKY that Obama took it so far as to wake people up, because Hillary would have done it more cunningly. HILLARY. IS. JUST. AS. BAD.

        • Kristi says:

          Couldnt agree more!

          She would have done the same thing.

        • AFinch says:

          Yep. We were the proverbial frogs in boiling water. Obama just turned the temp up way too high, way too fast. If HRC were pres., we’d still be simmering.

        • CAS says:

          Yes, yes and yes.

        • Thank you for your kind words.

          As to the video of Hillary proudly claiming to be a progressive, it starts out with her correctly stating that “liberal” used to mean something very different than it means today (she doesn’t quite say it like this, but “liberals” favored “liberty”, i.e. small government not big government)

          Here’s the video… watch Hillary, Gravel, and Obama… Gravel makes some great points, but Obama cleverly dodged the “bundler” = “lobbyist” charge and turned it into an “I’m Mr. Transparency” lie…

      • Jennifer H says:

        Thank you so much for posting all these comments in one spot.

        When you look at them all together there is no doubt about her beliefs.

    • TNWAHM says:

      As someone who is married to an Arkansan ~my dh’s sister went to school with Gennifer Flowers~ and someone who lived in Arkansas during the Clinton campaign and presidential years, I can attest that I have never liked Hillary Clinton. I had a boss that was personal friends with the Clintons. I had a client that I believe was one of Clinton’s women. I never asked her, but her comment was, “All those stories about his women are true.” I have always known that she is more of a oppressive leftist than Slick Willy. I remember the “behind closed doors” healthcare meetings in ’93. Vince Foster Did Not commit suicide. There are lots of bodies buried in AR. I, like others, didn’t speak neg of HRC much because of K.

    • Richdet says:

      Hillarycare. Travelgate firings. Whitewater. Cattle futures. Vince Foster suicide cover-up. “Pretty in pink” press conference. “Managing” bimbo eruptions. FBI files of political opposition “discovered” at White House. Only “First Lady” to testify before federal grand jury on obstruction of justice inquiry. “Vast rightwing conspiracy.” Lying about dodging enemy fire in Bosnia.

      And muse to Kevin duJan and presiding goddess of Hillbuzz blog.

      Aside from all that (and a few dozen other similarly infamous accomplishments), what’s not to luuuuuuuuv about Hillary?

      • violet says:

        Wow, this is all so interesting — I wondered sometimes if I were the only person at HB who had no love for Hillary. I kept quiet about it for fear of offending anyone or getting myself labeled a troll. It’s a relief to find out that I’m not alone and never was!

        • Integrity1st says:

          Violet!!! Did I miss when you showed up, or did you just get here?!?!?

          • violet says:

            Just got here (well, a day or two ago). It took me a long time to find you guys, and it’s kind of a funny story how I did (I was tempted to say “ironic,” but I try to avoid that word, as it’s so overused and abused that it no longer means anything)…

            I am still recovering, and still trying to get caught up with you all on everything I missed while I was wandering in the twilight zone….

            Where does one go to get the definitive version of what the h*!! happened?

        • I think most of us chose to focus on where we agreed with Kevin (Obama is a nightmare who has simultaneously destroyed our country and the Democratic Party) and we remained mostly silent about where we disagreed with him, especially in the area of Hillary Clinton.

          I made one observation about how he said “The Clintons have not been president since January of 2001″, and Kevin banned me. See my comment and his response. After that point, every comment I made went into moderation, and he didn’t approve them.

  24. Bijou says:

    Just for fun I popped in for a peak at HB, to see if there’s anything new.
    There’s just the ‘Open Thre

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