Open Forum – Saturday, November 27, 2010

Maybe I am a little behind the curve and this is not news to everyone else but I found out yesterday while visiting this site that we can donate “taxes”. Can this “donation” be taken as a charitable expense on my 1040? Interested in adding this “charity” to your giving list? Go here. Is this form site a joke?

Yesterday Sundance introduced Friday Fireside Chat. It is a big read and has started some big discussion. I look forward to the conversation continuing for days. I admit I only skimmed it yesterday and then went straight to the comments, which pulled me in and now I am reading (and enjoying) it with the comments in mind. You see, I was taught in the sixth grade how to read a chapter. First, you go to the end and read the study questions, then read the chapter with those questions in mind. I still apply this approach to reading power packed, mind bending, thought provoking blogs –which Fireside and its discussion is this week!

Enjoy and savor today. Know you are blessed. Rejoice.

223 Responses to Open Forum – Saturday, November 27, 2010

  1. pistol pete says:

    Good morning all!Enjoying a rare day off,and was up early as I always am.I didn’t see this mentioned yesterday and thought you might get a kick out of “Liveshot’s” latest flight from reality.He’s shelling out 85 grand of his wifey’s money to rent Boston Symphony Hall for a tribute to….himself.You can’t make this stuff up.

    • AFinch says:

      Mornin’ pete.

      Who ARE these people? Seems like the senior Senator from MA (who, by the way, served in Vietnam), could use one of those “reality tsars” Nincompoop Noonan talked about yesterday.

      Seriously though, I suspect the depletion of campaign coffers discussed in the article is typical of state and local democrat parties all over the country and it’s all due to the TEA party. Even where our candidates lost, we won by making them fight hard and spend lots of money to keep their seats.

    • emmajeri1010 says:

      I think we should each come up with ideas for the local facilities we will rent to praise ourselves. Considering the family finances, I think I will have to perhaps start with 30 minutes at the National Guard Armory. Perhaps the parking lot will do. Refreshments WILL be served, that’s no problem. I’ll have to work on the program.

      It always cracks me up when the Oscars strut the stage: those thousands and thousands of folks spend all year practicing their “professions.” Then they get together to tell each other how good they are at it. And get a statue of a naked man with tight buns.

      I bet Oscar is a heterosexual who just found out he has to go through airport security~~hence the tight buns.

      • Bijou says:

        Emma, your comments on ‘Oscar’ cracked me up.
        I don’t know about him being hetero, though… or any kind of ‘o’ for that matter.
        He’s always seemed rather ‘lacking’ if ya know what I mean. LOL!

        Great idea about celebrating ourselves in a local venue. The Armory sounds most excellent.
        I’m not quite awake yet, but off the top of my head, I’m thinkin’ maybe the bowling alley.

    • davesmom1 says:

      John Kerry… could you be any more out of touch and arrogant if you tried?

      • sosmass says:

        But really people, this is a Massachusetts Senator who just paid over $400,000.00 in taxes he did not have to pay for his $6million plus dollar boat, (maded OUTSIDE the USA). I mean, that was really, really generous of him to do since, despite living in Mass, and representing Mass, his boat said registered in Rhode Island right on it! Geeesh, you’d think you’d cut this guy a break!

  2. AFinch says:

    Do any of you read James Taranto’s Best of the Web Today at the WSJ Online? He has a way of pointing out logical inconsistencies in political and media discourse with just a touch of snark. He seems to take particular pleasure in skewering the NYT generally and Paul Krugman specifically. For all of you wordsmiths out there, you will appreciate the fun he has with headlines from various LSM sources.

    The first item he addresses in yesterday’s column is TSA groping, which he ties to the DOJ’s policy for prosecuting terrorists, writing: “If the perceived terror threat has diminished enough that the administration can get away with treating a terrorist like Ghailani like an American, it is going to have political difficulty when it treats Americans like terrorists.”

    • Pat P says:

      I have been on Taranto’s email list for some time now, and always enjoy his posts. You are right about the way he tweaks Krugman, which is so lucious!

  3. pistol pete says:

    This is why the RATS were so upset when the Supremes overturned part of McCain-Feingold,allowing corporate donations;it took away some of the advantage they had with their union and Soros money.This regime is so virulently anti-business,they know they can’t win a fair fight.

  4. phillycon4 says:

    Morning fellow “enemies”:

    Only in this perverse reality, conservatives are seen as the threat while the real threat is given “due process.”

    Anyway, just got settled down … I have not gotten a chance to fully read Sundance’s piece, when time permits, I’ll give it the attention it deserves.

  5. phillycon4 says:

    Not my intention to depress this morning, but here’s a sobering look at the economic picture:

    (Note, the dig the author takes at Cheney towards the end….)

    • pistol pete says:

      I remember after 9/11,Bush’e tax cuts led to 53 straight months of job growth and record-low unemployment.Still,the LSM whined about a ‘jobless recovery.’Now,these same hacks clutch ay any positive economic news to protect the incompetent buffoon squatting in the peoples’ house.
      Everybody knows its Congress,not the president that does the spending.We all know who has controlled the House for the last 4 years,now,don’t we?

      • Thomas Hooker says:

        Errrr, that’s one of the problems. Not everyone understands that Congress does the spending. When the LSM tells them it is all the Republican president’s fault, they believe that. Then when they are told it is the fault of Republicans in Congress, they believe that. And so on.

        By the way, you all get up so EARLY. yawn.

    • phillycon4 says:

      If you listen to Rush, he mocks this concept by reading the AP headlines. “Unexpected Home Foreclosures” or “Unexpected Rise in Unemployment.” Everything piece of bad news: unexpected.

      Plus, we never hear about the homeless as well. There are always numerous pieces done on the homeless during a Republican Administration. However, the homeless magically seem to disappear immediately once a Dem is sworn into office.

      Another amazing development, war is not so bad after all. No more protests, blood for oil, suddenly we are OK with it.

      In liberal/socialist utopia world, problems only exist if we report on them.

      • pistol pete says:

        In the same vein,he also posited that the same people who railed against the Patriot Act,unwarranted wiretaps,etc.,seem perfectly OK with the public assaults going on at airports around the country.All a matter of perspective,I guess.

      • phillycon4 says:

        Oh yes, who can forget the indignity of searching library computers, but groping and fondling at airports, no problem.

      • emmajeri1010 says:

        The homeless haven’t disappeared in Fargo, ND. Local TV news last night did a profile, including the stats that homelessness (including working homeless) is running about 1,000 individuals per night in the Fargo-Moorhead area, significantly up in the last 2 years. Haven’t figured out the George W. Bush connection yet. I’m sure it’ll come to me.

        • EJ, do you live in that area? I have a friend in Moorhead, she’s had 2 very rough springs living near the Red River.

          • emmajeri1010 says:

            Oh, I know she has. We live about 45 miles SE of there, near Fergus Falls. Every time they have to fight that fight, I’m so sorry for them all. I will never understand why the cities could not have done a better job of issuing building permits. Granted, the whole area is having an unusual wet streak–since 1993, seriously unusual. But a great deal of the building in the Fargo-Moorhead area has been done since that time. The 500 year flood in 1997 should have told them something. They saved the city, under the amazing leadership of Dennis Walaker, whom I will always believe should have a statue somewhere, with a stack of sandbags behind him. There is a MAN. Anyway, it just seems endless for those folks. Many of the farmers around here spent hundreds of hours up there filling sandbags in 1997, 2009 (the second 500 year flood in 12 years) and the lesser one in 2010. So now they are spending hundreds of millions buying out houses, to move people out of the area. What a mess.

            • frankie says:

              EJ – my DH’s hometown is Elbow Lake. He worked for Mark Sand & Gravel during the summer to get college $. We have fond memories of that area. He & his sibs still have the family farm about 9 miles N. of Elbow. We spent alot of time in Fergus. We also have friends & family who live in the Fargo/Mhd area. Small world, huh?!

            • emmajeri1010 says:

              Elbow Lake is such a perfectly beautiful little town! And we know Mark Sand & Gravel well.

    • yomotley says:

      Philly, this is discouraging but does not qualify as “depressing”. Discouraging becomes depressing when we can’t react anymore and are immobilized. This just fires up, keeps us seeking to be informed, and these emotions encourage us to be a part of a solution.

  6. YTZ4Me says:

    The West really has no clue about China’s stance. The term “exclusive economic zone” keeps reappearing in Chinese news sources as well. China has no intention of “condemning” N Korea.

    • emmajeri1010 says:

      I saw that exact phrase (Exclusive Economic Zone) on the bottom of the red hard-plastic sharpie disposal thingy that DH had for putting his used Lovenox syringes in after daily injections. It was made in an Exclusive Economic Zone in China….

  7. pistol pete says:


    Great.Now we’ll need full-body scans at tree-lighting cerenonies and Holder’s DOJ will not prosecute this turd because of “entrapment.”

  8. Shalini says:

    Hey guys! Can I hang around here too? I admit I haven’t missed your comments in HB because I’ve been reading them here. But it just felt a little dishonest not letting you guys know I lurk here considering the circumstances leading to the creation of this blog. So… may I? Pretty please?

    • yomotley says:

      Welcome Shalini. Your post was not lost in la-la land. First posts are held in moderation until released. From here out your posts should go through rather quickly; especially if you have a WordPress or gravatar account. If you enter your name and email each time you comment and make an error, you will end up checked into the moderation motel until we see it is our Shalini and not someone pretending to be you.

      Again, welcome.

    • TXMom says:

      I’m very happy to see you, Shalini!

    • sundancecracker says:

      Great to see you Shalini, enjoy your perspectives. How are things over there? Sorry if this question has been answered before but did Obamas visit leave a positive or negative image in the minds of your fellows? Just wondering….

      Great to see you again ! Welcome :)

      • Shalini says:

        Thank you, Sundance. :)

        You know the media. They are the same everywhere. They try to spin it as a positive visit but the public opinion has always been negative. I mean, so he says he’ll endorse India for a UNSC seat, but who really cares about the UN? It’s one fraudulent organization and the people don’t really care about that. There were news outlets which were unimpressed with his visit. We do have our own Gail Collins wannabes who’d proclaim *our* love for Michelle Obama and annoy the hell out of us in the process but that’s expected. But I am disappointed that his visit won’t really go down as the worst US presidential visit to India, but I’ll take what I get. GWB’s visit is still considered the best. Did you know they were briefly considering awarding him the Bharat Ratna, India’s highest civilian award?

        Anyway, what I tried to explain so inarticulately is that Obama’s visit wasn’t really a success. Truth be told the government and the opposition were hoping he’d leave soon so they could deal with the massive telecom scam that happened in my country.

        • sundancecracker says:

          Thanks. Also, please consider frequently updating us with a discussion thread on American “perception” overseas. Living inside our fishbowl we get minimal feedback on opinions and perceptions of our actions. Obviously we are shaking things up a bit right now, and our bowl probably looks more like a snow globe, but I am very interested in how much people abroad know the “sentiment” behind American action. The internet is an incredible influence on this.. I think.. But, anyway even just a few years around the opportunity to understand through your eyes would never have been possible. So I am keenly interested. If you don’t mind keeping us informed that is….

          • Integrity1st says:

            Yes, welcome Shalini, and very much what Sundance says!

            Also, can I ask how you found us, only because I’m hopeful for some other buzzers making it here.

            • Shalini says:

              Sure Sundance, I would love to.

              Integrity1st, I came here through Chrissy. She sent YTZ4mee’s now very famous article. From there it was easy. Sorry, couldn’t help you much.

            • ytz4mee says:

              Those who had a front seat to the wreck as it was unfolding….well, around here we just refer to it as “teh Rant”. “Article” is bit too kind.

              And I just scooted over to SSB to fish some people out of moderation and noted I have readers — yes, plural — from India. ;)

    • AFinch says:

      Welcome, Shalini! It’s so good to have you here.

    • Ad rem says:

      Welcome to the Honeytrail Shalini! ;-)

    • emmajeri1010 says:

      Welcome! Enjoy…

    • Wraith says:

      Welcome back, Shalini! I was afraid you wouldn’t find the place.

  9. NeeNee says:

    AFinch, I don’t know how to contact you personally
    so will have to post here, I guess.

    On yesterday’s thread you mentioned that ElRushbo
    is currently offering a year’s subscription to Rush 24/7,
    a year of the Limbaugh Letter AND a t-shirt for $59.99

    I went to the website and I do believe you didn’t read

    closely enough. You don’t get all 3 for $59.99:

    Here’s the skinny if you order Rush 24/7:

    Members Will Receive…

    * NEW! Stream Rush’s new audio podcasts directly to your iPhone: Hassle free – no downloads or syncing.

    * NEW! Be among the first to wear and proudly show your support of everything Rush stands for with the new Last Man Standing T-shirt and Screensaver. The T-shirt is only available with a subscription to Rush 24/7 or The Limbaugh Letter.

    * NEW! Access Rush’s daily audio and video podcasts: directly through your iTunes library. Take Rush with you where ever you go!

    * Rush’s Morning Update Video Download.

    * Rush’s Broadcast when YOU want to hear it: If you miss Rush live, you can listen to the entire broadcast or audio highlights – anytime you choose for FOUR weeks. Rush’s broadcasts are available in Windows Media Player and Real Audio.

    * Rush’s Total Stack of Stuff BEFORE the show: Access the voluminous stacks updated daily by 11:30am and follow along as the show unfolds.

    * Tap into the Essential Stack of Stuff: and discover the motherlode of Limbaugh – over 650 pages of articles, audio and reference material with new features added all the time – a MUST for the upcoming 2008 election year.

    * The DittoCam: Only 24/7 members can watch Rush broadcast from his studio and see what’s going on behind the Golden EIB Microphone.

    * Archives: the learning never stops since 24/7 members can scour the website archives for four full weeks.

    * Pure EIB Audio: Our audio wizards provide Rush’s complete broadcast to you minus the commercials and break music – so you can listen to three hours of broadcast excellence in only two.

    * Plus: Rush’s super-secret e-mail address, The Best of Rush on TV, Unabridged Pearls of Wisdom, Expanded Parody Library, and one-button disgronifier technology so you can print your favorite article or email your misguided liberal friends.
    The Limbaugh Letter special is $34.95 per year, and you get two free reports.

    If you call 1-888-395-RUSH, I think you get a live person who can give you a better deal if you commit to two or three years of the LLetter. Oh, and another bonus of 24/7 is that you have access to almost 20 years of Limbaugh’s Parodies (mainly Paul Shanklin). It must take awhile for the most recent parodies to get there, though, as last week when I had a listen the new ones weren’t listed.

    • AFinch says:

      I don’t know what to tell you. I’m looking at my receipt and it says what it says: “Recipient will receive 52 weeks fo RUSH 24/7, 12 monthly issues of the Limbaugh Letter, and the “The Last Man Standing” t-shirt.” Two subscriptions = $119.80, plus $15.90 shipping and handling. It’s called the Ultimate Rush Combo.

      Try loggging in as a 24/7 member, go to “join 24/7,” click “give gift.” He’s running a 30% off special.

      • ytz4mee says:

        Re: Rush.
        I just got an e-mail stating that AD military can apply for a free membership.

        Studmuffin wants to know what a “ditto head” is.

        • AFinch says:

          Tell Studmuffin if he listens long enough, he’ll figure it out and may become one himself.

          Yes, you can also donate military subscriptions. I suspect that Rush donates as many as are needed but he also gives his listeners an opportunity to be part of the giving.

          • ytz4mee says:

            He just signed up. We don’t need the “subsidy”… $5/mth is pretty cheap infomainment …cheaper than Netflix! ;)

            Just put it out there, so if people had someone overseas they could sign up and request a donated subscription.

  10. sundancecracker says:

    A little Saturday “get-to-know-eachother”… Fun 10 question quiz. What kind of conservative are ya?

    Me?…. “Anti-government Gunslinger, also known as a libertarian conservative or Tea Partier. You believe in smaller government, states’ rights, gun rights, and that, as Reagan once said, “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help”

    Must be why they also call me “Huckleberry”… he he

    • You are a Flag-Waving Everyman, also known as a patriot. You believe in championing liberty over tyranny, apple pie over sushi, and that God gave us a two-day weekend so we could enjoy football and NASCAR.

      Well, almost me, I love sushi, and would never watch NASCAR! But I would get out and wave the FLAG!!! In fact I’ve been trying to decide what vinyl sticker to put on the roof of my MINI Cooper and finally decided the American Flag was the bestest!!

    • AFinch says:

      “You are a Free Marketeer, also known as a fiscal conservative. You believe in free-market capitalism, tax cuts, and protecting your hard-earned cash from pick-pocketing liberal socialists.”

    • phillycon4 says:


      Did you post this originally on HB? The first time I took the quiz, I was deemed a “neo-con” and guess what, I’m a neo-con once again.

      • phillycon4 says:

        “You are a Freedom Crusader, also known as a neoconservative. You believe in taking the fight directly to the enemy, whether it’s terrorists abroad or the liberal terrorist appeasers at home who give them aid and comfort.”

        • yomotley says:

          Ditto for me. I am quite surprised.

          • Integrity1st says:

            Yea, I’m quite surprised. Thought I’d come out like Sundance til I read Philly’s. Turns out I’m like Sundance, but there’s gotta be a combo in there = )
            Result: Anti-government Gunslinger
            You are an Anti-government Gunslinger, also known as a libertarian conservative or Tea Partier. You believe in smaller government, states’ rights, gun rights, and that, as Reagan once said, “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’”

    • TXMom says:

      I’m a “Free Marketeer.” Thanks, Sundance. Some of those answers were hilarious!….accidentally nuking Texas? lol

    • My Results: Faith-Based Fighter

      You are a Faith-Based Fighter, also known as a religious or social conservative. You believe in Judeo-Christian values, restoring God’s rightful place in the public square, and in showing all the unwashed and unsaved liberal sinners the path to salvation, or at least to the GOP.

      There are some pretty funny answers in that little exercise……..thanks for posting Sdc.

    • wendy ann says:

      I = “Freedom Crusader, also known as a neoconservative. You believe in taking the fight directly to the enemy, whether it’s terrorists abroad or the liberal terrorist appeasers at home who give them aid and comfort.”

      Yeah, it pretty much fits!

    • NotAMolly says:

      My Conservative Identity: You are a Free Marketeer, also known as a fiscal conservative. You believe in free-market capitalism, tax cuts, and protecting your hard-earned cash from pick-pocketing liberal socialists. Take the quiz at Political Humor

    • Wraith says:

      Exactly no one is surprised by this.

      My Conservative Identity: You are an Anti-government Gunslinger, also known as a libertarian conservative or Tea Partier. You believe in smaller government, states’ rights, gun rights, and that, as Reagan once said, “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” Take the quiz at Political Humor

    • Richdet says:

      Turns out I’m an “Anti-government Gunslinger” — who knew??!!

    • Debra says:

      I’m a Freemarket Conservative. Thanks for the quiz, it was fun!


  11. Shalini says:

    I thought you guys might like this:

    I didn’t link to the blog I found this ’cause it’s predominantly a Christian apologetics blog. It also happens to be the blog which lead me to HB.

  12. ytz4mee says:

    I am constantly amazed and overjoyed at the number of RefuBees that are finding their way back to the hive.
    Welcome jmp and shalini!! ;)

  13. I got up at noon. That is so bad! In my defense I did stay up until 4…stupid internets. Now them kids and DH are all taking a nap. Dog and cat too…suffice it to say we are not exactly setting the world on fire today.

  14. 100LL says:

    Well this is my first post to my very first blog…….ever! Its time for a little drama and intrigue. First in am deeply and romantically involved with one of your key board room bloggers and have missed many waking hours as my significant other is tip tapping away in the other room, enjoying herself way too much. For now, I will be lurking in your cerebral shadows waiting for the opportunity to say something that won’t make me sound like a politico mambi pambi .Good bye………but I’ll be back!

    • ytz4mee says:

      Ha ha ha!
      Welcome, it’s good to have you here!
      And we are all extremely thankful for what your S/O has done to create this cozy place.
      Let us know if there is anything we can do to help you w/your flight training.

    • Ad rem says:

      Oooh teh mystery! Who could you be? Hmmm….”100LL”…..100 Latin lovers…100 looney liberals…100 lustrous Lamborghinis?

    • YES, thanks for your patience and daily sacrifice. Welcome!

    • Bijou says:

      Welcome, 100LL!
      Hmmm…100 Low Lead…sounds tasty!
      Fanks for sharing that incredibly wonderful generous gal who is your S/O. Don’t know where we’d be without her and her co-rescuers.
      We’d still be lost souls out wandering the gardens and orchards carrying our unused snarks wrapped in bandanas on the ends of sticks, hoping to bump into other like-minded orphans.

      Please jump in whenever the spirit moves you.

    • AFinch says:

      Welcome and thank you so much for supporting our cause!

    • butch says:

      Love your post!!! I too am deeply and romantically involved with one of the obsessive key room bloggers,missing many an hour as well. I also prefer lurking in the cerebral shadows,reading and learning from the “honies” that buzz about…….perhaps a sister/brother site…..obsessive bloggers and those that love em’!!!! I like it!!!

      Thank you for the warm welcome…and YES sundance is my amazing other half,he is, he is…opps out of the closet…
      God bless

  15. librarycountess says:

    Baby bro and family have headed home… house is very quiet now. I also see I have homework (Friday Fireside Chat)!

    Took the quiz… what a hoot! I am “a Flag-Waving Everyman, also known as a patriot. You believe in championing liberty over tyranny, apple pie over sushi, and that God gave us a two-day weekend so we could enjoy football and NASCAR.” Considering I had multiple answers to each question, it’s actually pretty accurate. (Plus I’m a long-time Dale Earnhardt fan!)

  16. Greetings Honeybees!
    I just read a very good article on the Washington Times (Obama’s Police State). Thought you guys would enjoy it. Blessings!

    • ytz4mee says:

      Hi, Housemom!
      Pull up a chair, and enjoy some leftover pumpkin pie.

    • sundancecracker says:

      Housemom, it is good to see you. I feel a need to clear the air surrounding my previous response(s) to your post of 11/14 on HB. Indeed, I have felt a need to apologize and I am hopeful you will provide me this opportunity and understanding.

      When longsufferingtribefan, requested a final clearing of the air surrounding the USO post by KD, in her attempt to close the wound, I took an innappropriate exception to your response. When you said:

      What happened on the USO post was unfortunate but it happened. If you were offended then ask yourself why it touched such a deep nerve and upset you. Kevin does not owe any of us an explanation nor does he owe us an apology.”

      I took exception to what I percieved (at that moment) to be curt. Indeed, I held a completely contrary view and felt that KD did actually need to apologize to Shelby68, and all those who came to her defense. Why? Well simply because I felt, and judged, that KD had crossed a boundary of malicious intent. It is one thing to make a mistake, and another thing not to admit it. People will forgive mistakes, because mistakes are usually of the mind, mistakes of judgement. But, people will not easily forgive mistakes of the heart, mistakes of ill intention, the bad motives, the pride-filled covering up of the first mistake.

      I took exception to what I believed/judged was your disingenuous dismissal of the specific, and obvious, ill intention. I allowed that “judgement” of mine to cloud my reason and response to you, and indeed chanelled my frustrations at KD toward you whom I viewed as coming to his defense. That was an unfair action on my part, and you did not deserve to receive the brunt of my admonishment. I sincerely apologize. It was not your burden to carry, it was not your ill intent of creation. My response was curt and arbitrary.

      In addition when you shared:

      I don’t give a flying fig if your feelings got hurt”.

      Again, through the filter of my dissappointment toward KD, I attached to your message the same illicit intention and hurtful dismissiveness. I should not have done that. Looking back, I can see that several defensive mechanisms were in play. Not the least of which was my own protective instinct toward the previous commentators who were seeking understanding, and who rightly felt attacked. When I responded to that comment, I was angry on behalf of all those persons who were seeking to grant benefit of doubt, while at the same time recognizing the intention was delivered by KD with specific, unapologetic, intention. Again, I directed my frustration toward you when I compared the response to the Westboro Baptist Church hatemongerers and their “we don’t give a fig” attitude toward individuals in grief. It appeared to me you were saying, so long as the ends were met, any means were justified. Hence, my innappropriate, unkind, and knee jerk comparative. I’m sorry for that comment, you did not deserve such a comparison. I was wrong.

      In summary. I hope you will accept my apology without reservation, and forgive my poor choice of words. There is never an appropriate excuse to direct such unkindness toward any person. My words were emotionally based and poorly chosen. Thank you for providing me this opportunity to express my regret, and I hope you will accept my sincerest apology.

      Warmest regards,


      • Gah. You are so stinkin’ nice. It was actually one of your comments that led me to do a little investigating and I actually had an e-mail convo with KD wherein I referred to you as”one of the regular commentors…seems really nice and well thought out replies”.

        Yes, I am shamelessly flattering you.

      • Bijou says:

        sundance, that was extremely classy and generous of you.
        I hope your gallantry is reciprocated. Will be watching with interest.

      • Thank you for the gracious words. I accept and tender my own in return. Much emotional grief and turmoil was stirred up by the original post and the way it was handled.
        I was actually responding to another post when I said the “fig” thing but when I went back to see the posts again I couldn’t find the original one that I had responded to.
        It went from bad to worse…we have all had time to reflect and dissect the events now so hopefully as “adults” can cautiously move forward. (I know from reading here that there are many that have been deeply hurt by K’s actions and I sincerely hope that in time you can heal)
        I *see* many of my favorite ppl here and have missed all the camaraderie. I hope you will allow me to visit and comment from time to time.
        As I get older I find that holding on to hurt is not beneficial to my emotional and spiritual growth and try to learn from each experience and become stronger because of them.
        I hold no animosity to anyone here.

        The people that come here and that go to HB do have a common goal and that is to work towards getting this great nation back to it’s Constitutional base. I am a Patriot and know that all of you are as well.
        Thanks once again and know this…I may not always agree with everything you say, but I will fight to the death to defend your right to say it.

        • yomotley says:

          You are already “in”, Girlfriend. You are stuck with us now.

        • Integrity1st says:

          Ugh, how awful if your comment got posted to the wrong poster. Ugh, ugh, ugh.

          You all would have laughed if you could have seen me, chasing around slapping people silly, and not one post of mine appears on that thread. Course, all the while, I treaded lightly on Kevin on the premise he was either hacked, or had a melt down, either way, I called each comment for what it was and received no press LOL. Probably for the best but as Bev was to trolls, I was to bullies, and I was beside myself that day.

          Has anyone seen SF Goth, Suz, and is there any chance Frankly is the Susan that used to have the picture of herself, the one who has the daughter with the three adopted kids? I want to find them all = (

          • ytz4mee says:

            Capt Caveman posts at a site that was linked to teh Rant. I’ll scoot over there and drop a note with a map in their mailbox.

          • FranklytheNut says:

            Frankly, I am the “Susan” of whom you speak. 8-) I posted it somewhere else before you arrived, but (lucky you!) I’ll include again just specially for you. You can see some of her pictures and blogging about her transition from CA to MT @ (She just whispered, “People often mistake her for a National Geographic photographer. You can put that in.” So I am, but I’m rolling my eyes while I do it!) .

            • Integrity1st says:

              Awesome, then that’s another buzzer I don’t have to lose sleep over! Motley, Finch and all of you who did this, WAY TO GO!

              Frankly, I think I read where you said that but wasn’t 100% sure without my own little identifyers. And I would also like to commend you on your new name, which I love, but also shows the resilience you have to rolling through adversity = ) IF I’m also correct, you were another of those specifically hurt so that our noble Chrissy took her stance. I love nobility.

            • FranklytheNut says:

              I was SO impressed with Chrissy. As close as any of you were to “the Boyz”, she was closer to Kevin. She loved him and what she was able to do on his blog, her life being so constricted by her health problems. We got better acquainted over the conversation about child molestation. I had email conversations with her, after she posted on HB about her own experience, to try and get some encouragement for our own family. We formed an off-HB friendship over this…but when she took a stand against Kevin for angelaisms and me, she did what she thought was right at the expense of a relationship that she loved and cherished.

              You’re right. That’s nobility. She’s one-of-a-kind, and I’m glad, as I have been reading over the past week or so, that so many of you recognize that.

            • Integrity1st says:

              And in the end, Frankly, she did what was right, and who would ever know how that would be the precurser of what was to come in a Tsunami – eh?

            • Integrity1st says:

              Tried the link, several times, no luck. Then put it in my browser, and still no luck, BUT it could be me/my computer?

            • FranklytheNut says:


              I guess the computer’s REALLY picky about having the whole address in place, and in proper sequence. How rigid! How authoritarian! How fussy!

    • FranklytheNut says:

      Hi, Housemom. Nice to see you here.

  17. Thanks ytz. Here in GA there is quite the buzz about a “sonic boom” that was heard and felt over a large area surrounding Atlanta. Some forums are saying it’s UFO’s. I would be one of the first volunteers to go for a ride if they did come to earth. Anything to escape Obi-wan’s NWO!

  18. yomotley says:

    Taking bets on which “refugee” will show up tomorrow…..

    In reference to yesterday’s discussion on a little ditty(or is it diddy) at the top of the page: What is a Grizzly Bee. I mean I know it is US, but what is that?

    • AFinch says:

      I suspect it is a cross between a Sarah Palin Mama Grizzly and a Honey Trail honey bee. If it’s all the same to you, I’d prefer that we stay away from slogans that express allegiance to one single person or potential candidate. I know there are a lot of Palin fans here (I’m one) but I suspect there are others here that may be pulling for another candiate in 2012. I would like to see people feel comfortable discussing all of them here openly.

    • Pat P says:

      I am hoping the next refuBee will be LongSufferingTribalFan.

    • Bijou says:

      motley, I agree with AFinch. Big surprise.
      That name just came to me off the top of my head, so it may not be ‘poetry’ but I like it because it covers quite a few bases.
      The first and most obvious is the same reason you came up with ‘honeytrail’. (It might help those little dogies who are still out there track us down.)
      Also, bees are vital to the planet’s very survival. Did you know that it is estimated that one third of the human food supply depends on insect pollination, most of which is accomplished by BEES?
      And they do all this without flash and fanfare. Just gettin’ the job done.

      I like the grizzly imagery for the same reasons Sarah Palin likes it.
      It is empowering, and has a ‘don’t mess with us’ vibe. They’re fierce but not nasty looking like a pit bull or something. Ugh.
      (I agree that this shouldn’t be a ‘Palin fan site’, although she will no doubt be a huge topic as things evolve.)
      Anyway, that’s my 2¢.

  19. Shalini says:

    Okay… I really have to get this off my chest. I am sorry it might be a bit long. And Motley, if you think this post should be somewhere else please free to delete it. I’ll have it saved and I’ll re-post it wherever you’d want me to.

    *Takes a deep breath* Here we go.

    I have a few confessions to make. But first, I want to mention 2 things I’ve always insisted when I was replying to long posts in HB. First was that the reason I loved HB was the commentators as much as the blog. Sometimes I use to go the Open Threads first to read all of your comments before I read any of the posts that were made. And second was me being clear that I did not always agree with him/them. There’s a reason for me saying this here. I’ll get back to this shortly.

    Confession 1: I knew Chrissy wasn’t on vacation for quite some time. (Quite some time being, before the USO thread fiasco.) It was kind of accidental, really. I was part of the KUMQUAT project and I sent 2 post cards all the way from India. So, Chrissy mailed me to inform me that she got them. In consequent email exchanges, where I mentioned she was being missed in HB, she told me she was staying away for the time being because of some difference in opinion she had with K. I didn’t press the issue but I sincerely hoped it would be resolved soon. So when K was telling people she was on vacation, I didn’t react because: 1) It wasn’t my secret to share, 2) I believed Chrissy was pretty much capable of speaking up for herself and would have shared it if she wanted to and 3) I naively assumed Chrissy knew K was doing this. Imagine my shock when I wrote to Chrissy about the USO thread and got to know about the actual extent of their ‘disagreement’. My heart broke, for her. I hope and pray the scars in her heart heal soon.

    Confession 2: Well, this obviously is about the USO thread. The post itself didn’t bother me, much. But when I started reading the comments, it was getting a bit annoying. But did I think the site was hacked? Short answer, no. This is where my point about disagreeing with HB has any relevance to this post. I did this mention this in one post I made there. The 2 posts they made about Pope Benedict XVI didn’t sit well with me. For one, they were agreeing with Maureen Dowd of all people!! But most importantly, they were wrong and misinformed and were unwilling to correct themselves. So many reasonable people explained why they were wrong and what do they do? Ignore all that and come up with the “Hatemail from Catholics” post. I don’t know if any of you noticed but the very last comment HB made in that post in response to a reader was downright rude. The lady (I am assuming it’s a lady.) very politely asked them to “Stick to politics.” or something to that effect and HB said something like “Don’t tell us where to stick what” and “God bless you and your head.”. So it wasn’t all that hard for me to believe it was him/them in the USO thread. (Now if you ask me why I remember something which must have happened in March/April, uhm… I have a freaky wired brain. I just remember stuff like this. Cursed with a good memory. And if you ask me why I continued reading HB after this, I explained that there.) So my fault here was to let you people assume it was a hacker. Could have said something.

    Confession 3: I waited to see what happened. Well… Bev happened. I admit I was hoping she’d come and say something reasonable but she went on the offensive and was being to rude to people unnecessarily that I was baffled. And then Susan aka FranklytheNut came and people ganged up against her and was being rude to her for no fathomable reason. I knew the person posting as FranklytheNut was Susan. I knew she changed her name to FranklytheNut in the Kate Perry/Sesame Street thread because some lady with a chip on her shoulder told her that “You are frankly a nut” and then went on to say something about how she didn’t care about what a 2000 year old fictional book said. (Hello! Freaky wired brain, remember?) I should have stood up for her. I didn’t because I was going through a depressing phase in my personal life and I am sure I would have been called troll what with me not even being an American. Besides some people would just refuse to believe. But then I am making excuses. I should have done the right thing which clearly didn’t. I said as much to Chrissy. So… Susan, if you are reading this, I know you don’t know me but I am truly sorry for not doing what I should have done.

    There! I feel better now. But I have some more to share. (I know, I know, but please bear with me this once, okay? :D ). I know a lot of you had given your money to them and I feel very bad for you people. I was planning to send *them* $250 for Christmas so they could each treat themselves to a $50 Christmas gift. Sigh!! My prayers for him have been sincere and I was honest when I told him I felt a real affection for him. (He was very sweet in his reply to that one single mail I sent him.) I know it would be true for most of you and the hurt you must feel must be much bigger. I hope and pray for that healing for all of you. I’ll pray for him too. He needs them, now more than ever.

    In my understanding of human psyche, people who feel they can be victimized because of their minority status are on the offensive most times. To them offense is the best form of defensive. Sort of like a cornered animal or something. I think that’s the case with him as well. It actually hurts me to think of it more than it should. Well, God is the only answer. And if he truly is seeking Jesus, then he has hope.

    Thank you Motley, for giving me this space to pour my heart out. I really appreciate it. More than I can explain and considering how long my comment already is, I guess everyone would agree that I actually don’t explain! :D

    Now I better be off to bed! I have to get up at 5 AM to attend the Sunday Morning mass!

    • yomotley says:

      Dear Shalini, Everything is fine. I am honored that even though a confession from you was NOT necessary, you chose to share yourself with us. I have no problem with anything you have shared. It is overwhelming that you trust all of us here. I hope we don’t let you down.

      In reference to not speaking up, comfort yourself that it would not have gotten posted anyway. If by chance it did slip through, it would have been soon removed. I personally, see nothing wrong or out of order not speaking up. I have a “Is it my business” monitor I go by when deciding when to speak up and, using that as my guideline, I would have done just as you have. You waited until it became your business and impacted your heart and conscience.

      Welcome, Friend.

      In His Love,

      Your Friend

      • sundancecracker says:

        “I hope we don’t let you down.” THAT my dear Motley is what makes you (and this place) so special. Of all the responses available for verbage, you choose the one that encapsulates all that is right. Humility. You are a fine, fine person Motley, and you have assembled the “bestest” peeps in the history of blogosphere. Congratulations.

        I am so proud to be a part of this growing community. You exemplify “Awesomeness”… :)

      • Shalini says:

        I am confident that you won’t. Thanks for this place, Motley. :)

    • Awesome post…thank you for sharing this.

      I think in one way or another we have all been where you have been (don’t mean to speak for anyone else, just an observation). There were times I didn’t say what I wanted to on the threads. And I too felt a sincere affection for KD, and he knows that because I have told him.

      One of the best things I ever read on HB was a commentor who unabashedly shared how she felt about the boyz and HB and what it all meant to her…it was so sweet. She basically said tell me what you need and “I will pour my heart out to God for you”. Do you know that phrase has stayed with me? It has inspired the way I pray.

      Anyways…I love that you shared this. Thank you.

      • Shalini says:

        To be honest, despite everything my affection for HB still remains. I still have them in my prayers, always will. But it’s just that I disagree with them and I believe K was wrong in hurting so many people. Lot of good did come out of HB. I discovered you people!! I know you said you didn’t mind posting there but it just didn’t do it for you anymore. I am not averse to idea of commenting there, either. (That is, if he doesn’t mind.) I just wish he’d accept he was wrong. Who knows, like Chrissy said may be he’d do one of his 180 degrees stuff. Well, hope is a good thing! :)

    • emmajeri1010 says:

      The feelings, confusion and motives you share here are strikingly similar to what most of us have had to one level or another. I never got directly involved in the crossfire, because it started getting ugly just about the time we were getting DH ready for surgery, but also because my antennae was picking up danger and incoming fire. I usually choose not to respond or get involved unless and until I know exactly what the issues are, what the truth is and which principled hill I may choose to die on. Just “getting in a word fight” is not my thing, and I really concluded that HB was perfectly willing to do that as were some of their apologists.

      • Integrity1st says:

        SD – thought I was done being watery eyed, and Emma, so very wise. Shalini, nothing to confess, it was all so confusing and such a big mess, no one could have done what’s right when no one really knew what was going on. I, too, knew about Chrissy, (my ONLY perceptiveness in this whole thing just because I knew she would have told us where or when she was going, not up and dissappeared), but I held onto that fact as THAT was going to show Kevin the light – – – Chrissy, who he had doled praise and love upon, withdrawing because of his inappropriate treatment of good buzzers. I felt if he wouldn’t come around for her, her wouldn’t for anyone, and whaddayaknow?

        My big dilemna is whether to feel really, really bad for Kevin because he is so messed up, or angry as heck because it’s all about conning people. It is probably a combination of the two, but I’m always healthier when I’m angry at scumbags than when I’m hurting over people’s pain like it’s my own. But one thing I am sure of is we must find people and keep others from being betrayed as we all were. It’s just the right thing to do because all of us can relate to being played for fools, or conned or betrayed or however we want to summarize it, and I don’t want others to endure something it is within our means to stop.

        PS Do we just assume Kevin, (and those from where you ‘parked’, is reading this? another ugh, but what can you do?

        • Integrity1st says:

          And, UGH to my typos!!!!!!!!!!

        • AFinch says:

          I proceed on the assumption that everything I write here is being read by Kevin. That’s why I don’t type anything here that I wouldn’t say to him in person.

          • Integrity1st says:

            you may note that I say NOTHING I wouldn’t say to the person themselves.

            I do wonder, however, about those lefties out there – thriving on HB’s demise = (

    • Menagerie says:

      Better to exercise discretion and not interfere with people than to risk becoming the Bevinator. It really bothered me that she seemed to have promoted herself to the boss of everyone who posted, the final arbiter of all opinions allowed.

      • yomotley says:

        “Better to exercise discretion and not interfere with people than to risk becoming the Bevinator”

        Yes, I also see the importance of talking on text and not veering off to the motive behind someone’s argument. (calling names, saying person is uniformed or naive or bitter or whatever or even a troll)

        • At the risk of being asked to leave I would like to point out something that I have observed about Bev. She is extremely loyal to her friends. She *saw* her friend being attacked and came out fighting. Perhaps she too will experience an epiphany of her own as it relates to HB.
          I suppose I have been conditioned to duck when I post anywhere. I didn’t see trolls behind every post (maybe I just didn’t study the instructions enough) and I felt that a lot of the people that were called troll were just trying to express their opinions and maybe aren’t as good with words as some of the other posters were. I know I got called some vicious things and labeled troll myself a few times. The result of that was my being less willing to express myself.
          We all learned valuable lessons @ HB and it encourages me to see you all embrace each other (and me).
          I am on this journey to educate myself so I can fight the good fight when it becomes necessary.

          • yomotley says:

            Housemom, no kicking boots in the wardrobe.

            • Integrity1st says:

              Yikes, Motley, I don’t know what that is supposed to mean. As for Bev, much as I didn’t agree with what she did, and found her a little on the bully side, I absolutely agree that loyalty could well have come into play, and have always felt loyalty honorable, up to an extent.

              And, factored with how many of us, and for how long we were duped, one has to consider the duping of the loyal, so yea, it’s entirely conceivable she will see the light and be hurt moreso than the rest of us. Ugh. I would welcome her, and the rest?

            • yomotley says:

              Integrity, it is in response to the imagining lead in sentence, “At the risk of being asked to leave…..”

              We haven’t kicked anyone out, our posts have been welcoming to everyone thus far, and we have throughout the posts emphasized “Come join us for discussion”.

              Thus, “Housemom, no kicking boots in the wardrobe.”

          • Shalini says:

            I really don’t have anything personal against Bev. I, too, felt fiercely protective of the boys even before I started commenting there. It’s just that I don’t think in doing so one has to immediately assume the worst of another person. I appreciate the loyalty, I just don’t think it’s healthy to have a blind loyalty towards someone. For the people we defend and for us, as well.

      • emmajeri1010 says:

        We learned some things about KD that we had not known before and, individually, chose to redefine our boundaries. Everything else is secondary. I suspect analysis in retrospect is difficult because we all had strong feelings from the first time we enjoyed HB. I really don’t feel a need to analyze or defend. The house was on fire, and we got out of the house. Good decision!

    • Oh Shalini…so very happy to see you have landed here too!!! You have a kind heart, and you are so correct…if Mr. Dujan is on a spiritual journey I pray that he does find Jesus.

      I think I figured my ‘banning’ though I never received an official ‘WordPress’ “Buzz off…” I felt stung (pun intended) that I had asked, and K replied (though I be grudgingly) ‘where is Chrissy? Is she OK healthwise?’ (it must have made it outta moderation on my gravatar only–I don’t think he would have wanted THAT query to appeaar…but it did). My answer was ‘she is on a well deserved family vacation.’ Then…all heck broke loss, I was too dumb to see that I was banned (thought I wasn’t logged in properly and kept resetting my WP password and clearing ‘cookies’–and face it, its never ever good to clear cookies.) I found ‘this’ place via a HB FB friend…

      All of that sums up to ‘glad to see you here.’

      ;) MQ-C

      • Shalini says:

        MQ-C!! Oh you have a blog now!! How did I miss that?? I love your way with words!!!! :) (I just have an exclamation fetish. Don’t mind me! :D )

    • FranklytheNut says:

      Shalini, I got tears in my eyes, reading your post. That was very nice of you to say that, and quite frankly (HA!), I’m stunned that you remembered that whole story, including the “2,000-year old fictional book” part…which I had forgotten. I knew when that Chrissy wasn’t on vacation. I didn’t say so, because I knew why (for sticking up for angelaisms and me), that she was really sad about it, and that she hoped for things to resolve, so didn’t want to stick my foot in and make it worse for her. Now that so much has come out, I don’t see that I can’t admit that much. But I kept that secret myself, at least to start out.

      I knew that it wasn’t a hacker, but I didn’t say so directly. I suggested that it was not by saying that I didn’t think it was some guy eating Cheetos in his mother’s basement. If I stirred up that much wrath with THAT gentle comment, just think what I could’ve called down on my hapless head if I’d said the truth, and exactly why, with no hints, inferences, or subtleties. Frankly wouldn’t have HAD a nut, under those circumstances…and in spite of my female gender, I have always had two. (They’re brass, in case anybody’s curious. And even if you’re not!) So I don’t think there’s any need at all for you to feel bad about it, at least not on my behalf. Housemom recognized me. Angelaisms, who’d been on HB MUCH longer than I had, and was compiling the Kumquat project, came on and identified herself as the other offending woman in Kevin’s prior rant, AND said that I was not a troll. She might as well have spit in the wind, for all the good it did. It’s my opinion that nothing anybody else said would’ve made a difference either.

      Don’t sweat it. It was a learning experience for everybody, in one way or another…and, if he’s very, VERY lucky, for Kevin, too.

  20. emmajeri1010 says:

    Ok, I took the quiz. Interesting. It says I am
    …. a Freedom Crusader, also known as a neoconservative. You believe in taking the fight directly to the enemy, whether it’s terrorists abroad or the liberal terrorist appeasers at home who give them aid and comfort.

    Interesting….I agreed with a lot of the questions that I didn’t click, but had to choose one, so there ya go. As a Bible clinger, I occasionally notice evidence of assumptions about Bible clingers. Some of them were apparent in the quiz….fun, though. My favorite was the first one: If you’re going to burn the flag, wrap yourself in it first. That’s the one I checked!

  21. JRD says:

    I’m fed up with these atheist POS. There I said it!
    Every holiday season the same garbage. Christmas is a national holiday in this country. What’s their problem? If they don’t like it they are entitled just shut up about it.

    • AFinch says:

      For a bunch of people who claim to be non-religious, they’re awfully religious in their assault against Christians. They do realize, don’t they, that insisting there is no God is just as “irrational” as insisting that there is. His existence can be neither proven nor disproven. Both require an act of faith.

      Oh, well. The best way to ruin an anti-Christmas cruisader’s day is to be happy.

    • sundancecracker says:

      JRD thanks for sharing that article.
      ” If the religious right wants a war on Christmas, this is what they’re going to get,” he said. “If they want a war on Christmas, we’re going to make sure they know what one looks like.”
      The campaign is one of several atheist media blitzes scheduled this holiday season.
      It joins a $200,000 national television, newspaper and magazine advertising campaign sponsored by the American Humanist Association and the Stiefel Freethought Foundation meant to challenge biblical morality and fundamentalist Christianity.”

      Unreal, absolutely unreal. What kind of ideology (spiritual, religious, or otherwise) finds within its core mandate the need to diminish human value and belief. What kind of mindset needs to advance its beliefs solely by diminishing the beliefs of another? A hurtful, intollerant, systemic desire to diminish value is the essence of evil. This is NOT political correctness. This is an intentional attack on humanistic values of live and let live.

      These are indeed the most divisive of times. :(

    • frankie says:

      Amen & absolutely, JRD. I’m sick of everyone being allowed to have their religious Holidays and everyone’s beliefs tolerated except Christians & Jews any more. I’m just plain tired of all the the naysayers. If they don’t like this country the way it is…….wouldn’t it be much easier if they found one that is already to their liking rather than trying to change this one that is just fine with so many of us? Much less time consuming for them AND for us!

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